Best Encoding For Sony 8-bit XAVC / Alternative to Nested .veg Files??

karma17 wrote on 9/10/2017, 9:19 PM

I apologize if this is answered somewhere else, but was trying to confirm the best rendering setting for preserving the quality of Sony XAVC shot with an A7S. I have been having issues with Vegas freezing up when rendering several nested .veg files, so rather than nesting .veg files, I thought I would simply render the XAVC with AVC intra in a .mxf container, then bring those clips into a master timeline and work from there, versus the nested .veg files. But I was wondering if Vegas recompresses the XAVC or if the Sony AVC intra is sufficient to handle the XAVC without needing to do anything. The only downside to this method is that the AVC files are large and take a while to render themselves.

Curious to hear any thoughts on this.

Thank you!!

P.S. I'm working in Vegas 14 but also have 15.

 

 

Comments

NickHope wrote on 9/18/2017, 2:06 AM

XAVC Intra is a good choice of intermediate codec for this purpose. Probably the best choice among the native codecs shipped with Vegas. Minimal quality loss. If you want true lossless then try the MagicYUV VFW codec at RGB setting.

karma17 wrote on 9/18/2017, 2:41 AM

Appreciate that. That's what I was thinking. I will have to try the Magix YUV to see how large the file sizes become.

A while back, I did some rendering tests and found Sony's AVC to be a fairly good codec in terms of quality and file size. For some codecs, I remember them creating significantly larger file sizes but not having significantly greater quality, so, everything pointed to Sony AVC.

I'm not a codec expert, but I thought intra-frame codecs were generally considered visually lossless. I know ProRes and DNxHD are intra-frame codecs and are visually lossless.

I wonder why AVC Intra is not considered visually lossless? Too much compression or something?

 

 

NickHope wrote on 9/18/2017, 3:01 AM

Appreciate that. That's what I was thinking. I will have to try the Magix YUV to see how large the file sizes become.

Don't confuse MAGIX with MagicYUV!

A while back, I did some rendering tests and found Sony's AVC to be a fairly good codec in terms of quality and file size. For some codecs, I remember them creating significantly larger file sizes but not having significantly greater quality, so, everything pointed to Sony AVC.

Don't confuse Sony AVC with Sony XAVC!

I'm not a codec expert, but I thought intra-frame codecs were generally considered visually lossless. I know ProRes and DNxHD are intra-frame codecs and are visually lossless.

I wonder why AVC Intra is not considered visually lossless? Too much compression or something?

Whether a codec is "visually lossless" probably depends who is applying the label, how good their eyes are, how good their equipment is, and, in the case of ProRes and DNxHD, which actual flavour they are using. The tests I've seen indicate that XAVC-I holds up well against ProRes, DNxHD, Cineform, Grass Valley etc..

karma17 wrote on 9/20/2017, 6:39 AM

Thanks for pointing that out! I honestly didn't realize that Vegas has a Sony AVC and XAVC option! I've only used the Sony AVC for burning Blu-Ray discs.

Would I be correct in assuming the Sony camera A7S XAVC-S codec is the same as the Vegas XAVC?

I don't doubt at all that the XAVC is a fantastic codec. The footage I've shot with the A7S looks fantastic and seems to hold up to modest grading well.

I've always appreciated the many rendering options in Vegas, but as I'm seeing, there's even more than I realized!!

TheDingo wrote on 9/20/2017, 9:32 AM

You can also use the Sony XAVC Intra formats if you want to preserve as much detail as possible in your video image. ( not sure if it comes with VP15, if not you may have to install the FREE Sony Catalyst Browse software to enable the Intra formats )

 

AVsupport wrote on 9/20/2017, 6:06 PM

XAVC-S is limited to 8-Bit only (being the 'consumer version' unfortunately, thank you Sony) whilst with XAVC you can get different 'flavours', like LongGoP or intermediate, the latter obviously better suited for editing (but takes more data).

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

32GB (4x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

Crucial BX500 1TB EDIT 3D NAND SATA 2.5-inch SSD

2x 4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

NickHope wrote on 9/20/2017, 9:49 PM

XAVC Intra is the one you want to use for an intermediate render. It's included with Vegas Pro. The A7S shoots XAVC-S, which is temporally compressed, whereas XAVC Intra isn't.

karma17 wrote on 9/21/2017, 12:32 AM

Thank you Nick. Really appreciate your thoughts.