Best HD web delivery format revisited

goshep wrote on 12/9/2007, 8:09 PM
I know it has been discussed and this is MY second post about it but....

I need to make a decision soon and there are still so many variables. Flash Player 9 seems to have major unresolved installation issues per Adobe's support page but I'm really impressed with the interactivity of flash media. DivX boasts some pretty amazing HD quality but are the majority of people who don't have DivX player installed going to take the time to install yet another player? Quicktime seems to be the method of choice for Yahoo's Movie Trailer delivery and it looks good too but with longer buffer time.

What to do? And...

Where does one strike the best balance between quality of delivery/size of image and length of delivery time?

My big HD selling point is becoming more of a big HeaDache.

Comments

jrazz wrote on 12/9/2007, 8:16 PM
I like Stage6 as they host the files and stream them for you. They just added more servers and there is virtually no lag time now.

So, for a free account that boasts no limits (last time I checked) and you can paste the code into your website to display it without your customers ever leaving your web page... I think divx is on top on this. Of course, I am sure others have differing opinions, but divx+stage6 just has more to offer.

j razz
goshep wrote on 12/9/2007, 8:26 PM
j razz,

I'm giving the DivX converter trial a spin right now and I'm already impressed. I just dumped an 890 MB SD clip capture from Vegas into the converter and in less than 5 minutes it gave me a 36 MB file playable in full screen that looks much better than anything I've come up with in Media Player and Quicktime. I was also unaware that a commercial project could be linked to their site. My only complaint so far is my inability to get it to ingest HD. The banner says, "Anything in...DivX out" so I had to laugh after trying every HD option I could think of.
jrazz wrote on 12/9/2007, 8:42 PM
I use Dr. Divx. It is free and will ingest m2t files. Do not use the browse feature, just drag and drop or else it won't see the files.

j razz
goshep wrote on 12/9/2007, 9:02 PM
Got it. Tried it. Like it....alot.

Thanks for the suggestion!
GlennChan wrote on 12/10/2007, 12:32 AM
Maybe shotgun the audience with choices.

For low bitrate, give them a choice of Flash, Quicktime, etc.

For HD, it is ok to only have divX as an option. They can choose the lower-bitrate alternatives if they don't want the hassle of installing divX.
bigrock wrote on 12/10/2007, 8:56 AM
I my opinion Flash has the best balance of platform indepence, reliability, quality and cost of deployment. Quicktime would be ok if it wasn't so unreliable in instantiating itself on Windows platforms (resulting in blank displays). Flash will be getting even better now that are going to be deploying out H.264 codecs in the next version.

Have a look at my broadcast sample to see what is easily achiveable with Flash at a reasonable bit rate click here to view. This clip has a ton of movement in it which pushes the VP6 codec to the limit.

BigRockies.com Your Home in the Rockies!
goshep wrote on 12/10/2007, 10:39 AM
Glennchan,

A very good idea (probably obvious to most but completely overlooked by me) to which I'll definitely consider.

bigrock,

That looked very nice and the audio was great too. My two concerns with flash are:

1. The major issues with Flash 9 installation. I've even been effected by it now. I installed a flash content creator that came with Web Easy Pro 7 and now my flash installation is corrupted. I don't know if the new application caused it or if it happened when I attempted to upgrade to the new Flash but I can't get any version to install now. I've seen pages of the same complaint on Adobe's site but their suggestions to remedy the problem haven't worked for me or anyone else for that matter.

2. Do I need to make an additional purchase? Or is there a free flash encoder?


jrazz,

Dr. DivX was working great until I tried to import m2t files that had been smart-rendered by Vegas. A simple captured m2t clip works fine but if I "stitch" a few together in Vegas and render out an m2t or an AVI, Dr DivX experiences a myocardial infarction and drops dead. What to do?

In the meantime, I'm dead in the water with any flash content until I find the right suggestion to get SOME version of flash player installed. Good Grief.

Laurence wrote on 12/10/2007, 11:58 AM
for flash content, all you need is something that can render in flv and this website:

http://www.freevideocoding.com/http://www.freevideocoding.com/[/link]
4eyes wrote on 12/10/2007, 12:42 PM
I was able to view that link running Linux without any problems, looks great.

I can export HighDef Divx from Vegas but have trouble with the audio. I know many are using pcm for the audio which may be your choice but not my preference at all.
Is anyone able to export highdef divx using mpeg3 audio, 44.1khz-48khz@128kbs-224kbs Stereo?
If so did you install this mp3 codec separately like the lame mp3 codec.
My choices for the mpeg layer 3 audio that the default vegas setup provides are not correct.
Laurence wrote on 12/10/2007, 12:58 PM
I have gone around and around with this exact problem. No I never could make it work. Not only with DivX, but combining Lame mp3 with any video codec doesn't seem to work.

My work flow is just to render to a deinterlaced one field 960x540 mjpeg using the excellent $28 Pic Video MJPEG codec at the highest quality. Then I convert from the version to whatever online format I need: DivX, FLV, Quicktime Pro, etc. It seems to work quite well.
4eyes wrote on 12/10/2007, 1:14 PM
I can export HD-Divx using the ulead software. Either VideoStudio or MovieFactory.
I know you have MF and going to Export -> Customize -> avi - options -> compression -> select divx - advanced etc.
You can use the HD Profile or Unconstrained.
If you select HD1440 it may render to square pixels, using 1920x1080 works nice.

In MovieFactory to see the purchased HD-Divx codec I first had to remove/rename the divx codec that MF installs. If you perform a search for divx*.* in the ulead MF programs folder you will see the DLL's and some templates.
Simply rename the divx.dll in the main MF program directory (where the program executes from), otherwise I think the default divx encoder will pop up and not the purchased hd encoder one.
But in MF or VS I have no problem and use mpeg3 audio with the hd-divx videos. Usually I'll encode them to 8mbs. They look fine. If your processor is fast enough ( for proper playback of interlaced hd-divx) you can encode the divx as interlaced video UFF. The motion is perfect compared to the original source hdv.m2t files. My Q6600 has no problems for playing back interlaced hd-divx, my P4 2.8 doesn't do very well playing back interlaced hd-divx.
They also playback on a hd-divx certified consumer player that I own, the AVeLinkPlayer2. Progressive or interlaced, the interlaced look the best because they retain the true motion of the original source videos.
goshep wrote on 12/10/2007, 1:21 PM
Maybe THAT'S what the problem was with Dr. DivX. It seemed to choke on the audio portion of the encoding process. Hmmm.