Best Over All Codec?

i c e wrote on 8/22/2014, 11:18 PM

Hello Everyone,

So you all helped me find the camera and get started (thank you!!). I've shot (what I believe are) some pretty amazing timelapses in America's best National Parks. I am now working in AfterEffects ( I hope I can mention that program here with out any haters:) to render the RAW files out to video.

I really have no idea what codecs are all about, but I need to render them out to a video file that is good for DVD (final use) and also some web stuff. Is it possible to use one video file that will be okay for both? Do I need to do one render for DVD and another for Web?
What's an easy codec for Vegas/ Adobe Programs that I will need to use a bit (like Premier) to read and work with?

It says AVI is loss-less so I am thinking that is best but am worried about file size ( I am going to have a lot of files) and having enough storage. I ran into a problem a few years back where Cineform files were just too big.

Last thing I will add is that this I am trying to do this project as close to professional quality as possible. It will be projected in HD around the world and I need it to be as best as I can but with in the constraints of what's realistic for my workflow.

Thanks so much everyone for any help.

Joshua

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DeadRadioStar wrote on 8/28/2014, 10:45 AM

Out of curiosity, on a Windows 8.1 32-bit laptop with a virgin install of Movie Studio 12 on it, I noticed I could select Cineform as a codec within a VfW template, but it failed to render, so I'm assuming this is delivered with MS12 so people can decode their GoPro Studio Edit intermediates (so decode only, not encode -- fair enough).

I then downloaded and installed GoPro Studio Edit Free, and lo and behold, I could now also render to Cineform from within MS12. When I check in Windows Media Player, it's listed as "GoPro-Cineform Codec v8.6.3.670".

So two questions:

1. Is this the only way to get the Cineform codec? Call me dense, but I've searched the GoPro website and I can't find it anywhere as a separate product offering.

2. Is it better to create the intermediates using Studio Edit, or from within Vegas by rendering (where there seems to be more control available, and Vegasaur could be used to batch automate)?

I suppose what I'm saying is that I'd prefer not to have to install Studio Edit on my Win7x64 VP13 station as (a) it's a 32-bit application and I'm really trying to avoid any more 32-bit stuff and (b) it wants me to install both QuickTime (yes, I've managed to avoid it so far!) and a hardware driver -- although you can skip both.

videoITguy wrote on 8/28/2014, 11:40 AM

Dead.... Quicktime should always be installed first on a video editing platform. The basis for using an NLE since time began has always been the Quicktime presence. VegasPro13 adheres to this tradition and you need to install it after the Quicktime layer is present.

Cineform was acquired by GoPro - I believe that both websites for the corporate continue to exist for legacy reasons - but GoPro is your goto. Cineform decode and basic install are free, but if you want to move to a topnotch color correction manager within the Cineform scheme - that remains a full purchase. You do not have to purchase Cineform to realize it's basic benefits - and just as you found the underlying layer is present and free.

start here : http://shop.gopro.com/softwareandapp/gopro-studio-edit-software/GoPro-Studio.html

DeadRadioStar wrote on 8/28/2014, 1:27 PM

@videoITguy, thanks for the link, but I still don't see any software for offer there other than the free Studio Edit ... I've found the Premium and Professional versions here but nowhere to get the codec in isolation.

Sure, if the codec (up to HD) is already free as part of Studio Edit Free, why would anyone want to buy it, you ask ... well, I suppose before I dive in I want to do some research, and somewhere in the back of my mind is the fact that if someone gives something away for free, they no longer feel any obligation to support it.

videoITguy wrote on 8/28/2014, 2:44 PM

you fret too much, if you just scanned above these posts you would have read that Cineform is a standard of the industy. The applications include tools like color grading for DI's which is extremely important in a professional workflow.

John_Cline wrote on 8/28/2014, 2:51 PM

The Cineform codec included with the free GoPro Studio software can be used for both encoding and decoding with no limit on resolution.The conversion software itself has some interesting features. I don't know why some people are so skeptical about this free software, GoPro is making tons of money selling their cameras and they can easily afford to give the software away for free. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, just get it and use it.

I'm using the paid-for GoPro Studio Premium software for its Firstlight capabilities. For me, Active Metadata was well worth the $299 price of admission. It allows for non-destructive full color correction that works at the decoder level, it's really pretty brilliant.

http://cineform.com/products/gopro-studio-premium

DeadRadioStar wrote on 8/28/2014, 3:24 PM

"I don't know why some people are so skeptical about this free software"
.... because I remember a time when Google was just a "free" search engine :-)
"Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"
.... yeah, you're probably right! And yes, V., I do fret too much sometime. OK, sold!

John_Cline wrote on 8/28/2014, 4:46 PM

"because I remember a time when Google was just a "free" search engine"

I've never paid a dime to do a Google search, nor have I ever paid to watch over-the-air television. They're both ad supported, I have no problem with that whatsoever. I also don't mind if Google knows what I like or even where I am at the moment, as long as they can't take money out of my bank account without my approval, I'm fine with all of it. GoPro being able to give away the software for free is paid for by all the people that have bought GoPro cameras. You're welcome.

mdindestin wrote on 8/28/2014, 8:12 PM

<<<There are only two OS platforms that I would use for video edit -WinXPSrvcPk3 32bit and Win764bit.>>>

I had to learn that lesson the hard way.

musicvid10 wrote on 8/28/2014, 9:24 PM

Nothing sacred about Cineform. It's a very good codec.
Comparable to ProRes and DnxHD.
A drawback is that open source decoders (ffmpeg, libav) aren't available (yet).
10 bit DnxHD decoding is now available in libav, due partially to moi.

Laurence wrote on 8/28/2014, 10:20 PM

XDcam mp4 is what I use and hat I think you are looking for. It is a fraction of the size of Cinedorm or DNxHD and as hard as. I look, I just can't see the difference, even zooming in on what should be problem areas. That or XDcam mp4 which at 35Mbps is the same exact mpeg2 video compression. I tend to use XDcam mp4 over XDcam mxf because it feeds Handbrake better.

musicvid10 wrote on 8/29/2014, 8:26 AM

I think we need to take care, when comparing visually lossless YUV codecs, to avoid comparisons at the intermediate level, and recognize that apples and oranges look quite alike at that stage.

If we compare final output renders (8 bit) for chroma "slop" and banding, I and others find that those from 10-bit 4:2:2 intermediates fare better, sometimes visibly so. Laurence and I discussed a while back just why this seems to be the case, and I still like his explanation better than the "urban myth" being widely repeated on the internet, but which just doesn't make sense.

So, while 8 bit 420 and 10 bit 422 may look the same at the intermediate stage, differences "can" show up in the 8 bit output we intend to deliver. Those differences are compounded if there is grading going on in between.

I realize that's different than an opinion I stated a few years back, before I actually started testing this stuff.

If we place a few popular YUV intermediate options in tiers, they come out something like this (excluding lossless RGB at the top). There are other differences within tiers, but they seem more dependent on bitrate:

Tier I
*Sony YUV 10
Lagarith YUY2 (buggy in libav)
Huffyuv YUY2
UT Y422

Tier II
Avid Packed
*DNxHD 10
Cineform
ProRes 422 (untested by me)
Matrox UC
MXF mpeg 422 (8 bit 50 Mbps)

*Best in tier (banding + chroma)

Tier III
Sony YUV 8
DNxHD 8
MXF mpeg 420
x264 Hi10 420
Matrox mpeg
Others

Former user wrote on 8/29/2014, 11:31 AM

I can't seem to get other programs to accept the Sony 10bit YUV.

musicvid10 wrote on 8/29/2014, 2:12 PM

It "was" working in Handbrake when I first ran the tests in 2011.
A lot of things may have changed, as libav has undergone several iterations.

A worthy substitute is DNxHD 10 bit 444. You need newer Handbrake, and I'm interested in hearing how it works, as I had a small part in its implementation into libav 10. As with Sony YUV, it makes for some really big files.

musicvid10 wrote on 8/30/2014, 12:01 AM

UPDATE:

ffmpeg and libav support 8 bit Sony YUV, but not 10 bit.
Bummer, but 8 bit Sony YUV is also at the top of its class, showing less banding than UT Y422, and outdoing both Huffy YUY2 and Lagarith YUY2 for chroma noise.

astar wrote on 9/1/2014, 11:02 PM

I think the best overall codec at the moment is .EXR using linear color space, or an ACES color space. EXR is the next generation of DPX, or Kodak's Cineon format. Both EXR and DPX are built into Vegas Pro. Of course you are working with image sequences and not video files.

John_Cline wrote on 9/2/2014, 7:31 AM

Another recent entry in the lossless codec arena is MagicYUV, which promises faster-than-realtime processing of 4k material. The codec is multi-threaded and fully supports multi-core CPUs with near-linear scaling. To further enhance performance, all internal frame processing is SSE2 optimized. It is currently up to release candidate 5.

http://magicyuv.com/

mdindestin wrote on 9/7/2014, 8:27 AM

LOL:

https://twitter.com/comebackshane/status/489517496328663040/photo/1