What ever happened to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?"

This is the problem with "advancing technology." Move forward at any cost, even if it means taking steps backwards!

What ever happened to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?"

This is the problem with "advancing technology." Move forward at any cost, even if it means taking steps backwards!
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If I had to guess, I would say that those who "rip movies" to DVD blanks is a larger target market share than we are.

If that is the case then the reviews of DVD media that state the following carry more marketing weight than out reviews:

"Dude, duh medya sed 16 timz and I burnt the sucka at 20 X !!!! Dude, yu R scord wit dis medya if Yu by it."

John

Biggest single cause of compatibility problems, of which we have very few and I'm talking 1,000s of disks, are the damn players themselves.
Most common issues, the laser in the player is on the way out and the first thing they have problems with is burnt media. I've had around4 players die of old age and they always go the same way. Eventually all they'll play is CDAs.

Next problem is how the things are authored. There was an issue with how DVDA did things and a new chip used in some combo units. That seems to have been fixed in DVDA but the significant point was that all were in spec, the spec just has holes in it.

The other issue is how you encode. Set the minimum bitrate too low and depending on your content you can cause some players to have a coniption.

When it comes to the media and how you burn it, burning too slow can cause problems. Burning high speed media in old low speed burners can also cause a problem.

Bob.

OK Bob, add those to the list. Point is, there are far too many variables. Shouldn't be that way for us as videographers. Now try to find DL discs that work as well as one should expect (since DL is the industry standard). Factor in all the variables on top of that. Now add HD to SD to the mix. Yikes!

John

I too moved from the Ritek G04 to the Taiyo-Yuden 8x Premium G02, exactly the same as you. I like the Ritek, but in my testing (you need to test !!!) the Taiyo Yuden were -- and still are -- better.

You have to have a good burner. There are sites that do nothing but test burners and have fanatics that burn dozens of discs and compete to see who can get the best burn. Very informative.

What I have learned from that is that the burner does make a difference, although most of the name brands, like Pioneer, generally do quite well.

Finally, I agree with Bob on the need to have decent players. I used to say that I'd never had a return, but I have now had three. I researched each one and was able to determine in two of the cases that the player was failing. This is not surprising because I have gone through five burners in my computer in just five years (I burn a few hundred each year, not thousands). These suckers are c-h-e-a-p.

So, you are doing the right thing. However, I'd definitely recommend you download and run:

nero dvd speed

and test some of your discs using the "Quality" tab in this utility. It will tell you if you are getting good burns. If not, make sure your burner is OK, and that you have genuine (not fake) media.

John,

I have been buying my TYG02 premium media from Supermediastore. I have been buying the non-printable type from them. Is that who you use or do you have a better supplier?
Nero DVD Speed Quality test turns in the same results for me on Ritek G04 and TYG02 and MCC 02RG20.
John

I have used Ritek G05 for a while some time back, but suddenly they got unstable and I got a lot of coasters. The shop where I buy in the UK agreed with me on that at that time so I went for TY a year or so back, and they are ok.

/Ulf

I have been buying my TYG02 premium media from Supermediastore. I have been buying the non-printable type from them. Is that who you use or do you have a better supplier?This is the exact item that I purchase:

Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R Inkjet Hub Printable at Meritline

I usually use Meritline, but only because I started there before I knew about Supermediastore. I have ordered from both vendors, and can't tell the difference. Meritline has been great on returns (I ordered an external USB enclosure that was defective, and it went back with no problem, as have other items). They even replaced about twenty-five plastic jewel cases that were crushed in shipping.

Most shipments arrive without a problem.

As for testing, I am constantly tinkering, trying to find a "better burn." I forgot to post a link to the site where Über-Geeks really get into this:

CD Freaks

Check out their forums. Amazing.

Once you decide on the best media -- and it seems universal across all forums that the Premium Taiyo-Yuden G02 8X is the best, with the Verbatim being virtually as good -- you can only experiment with different drives and different burn speeds. I strongly suggest that the next time anyone reading this has to burn multiple copies of the same DVD, try burning at the maximum speed, then at the next lowest, and so on, down to 4X. Then, put each disc into a different drive, and run the DVD Speed "Disc Quality" test at 4X (that test should always be run at 4X because that is the reference speed that most sites use for comparison -- the burn speed has nothing to do with what the test speed should be).

I have consistently found very little difference in burn quality between burn speeds, and generally have found the 8X speed (the rated speed of this media) to be as good or better than any slower speed (I even tried 2X at one point).

So, I usually disagree with those that say slower burns create better discs. However, the reason I don't say this with italics is that I would not be surprised to find out that this could be different for each burner/disc combination. That is why everyone should test. The test is basically free, because most likely even the worst disc (if there is much of a variation) will still be shippable.

Ditto to the above.

Coincidentally, as I write this I'm in the middle of a 75-disk burn/print using the TY Watershield disks. Love these things, and the afore-mentioned Nero CD/DVDspeed utility can check to see if you're putting out quality burns or junk.

This is the exact item that I purchase:
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Seems the same as Supermediastore in all those respects so I guess no point in switching.
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Once you decide on the best media -- and it seems universal across all forums that the Premium Taiyo-Yuden G02 8X is the best, with the Verbatim being virtually as good -
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The Vebatim I use is MCC 02RG20 and it is just as good as TYG02 as I mentioned above. I have read CD Freaks on occasion as well as Videohelp.com which gives compatibility results from users reports. I probably should get into CD Freaks a little more.

How do you know that you can base all conclusions regarding media compatibility from Nero DVD Speed Disc Quality?
What kind of numbers are you getting from those tests? I can't remember what I got last time with TYG02 and MCC 02RG20, but I think it was around 91.


John

One of my media suppliers has a uber expensive CAT scanner, if you're really serious you need one but they're $10K. He's done exhaustive tests mostly on burning audio CDs and the conclusion is that burning at 24x produces the least jitter.

When I master audio CDs I check them with the utility from Plextor however there's a trap in all this burning and testing. What you're measuring is initial error rates. The quite expensive MAM gold media returns quite high error rates compared to some of the 10 cent crud I've compared them to. Put both aside for 12 months and test again and the results start to change. So for anything important or that goes to our national archives I burn an archival copy onto MAM gold media.

Bob.

Bob is correct in all his points about MAM-A.

How do you know that you can base all conclusions regarding media compatibility from Nero DVD Speed Disc Quality?

My numbers vs. your numbers don't mean much because the actual number of errors you get, and therefore the final "quality" number are a function of the CD or DVD drive used to read the disc. You will definitely get significantly different figures on different drives. Therefore, you can only tell the difference between one media and the next, and one burn and the next. Also, if your reader lasts a few years (none of mine do), you could go back like Bob suggests and read discs you've burned before and do another test to see if the disc is degrading. However, since drives change over time, I'm not sure even that would be useful.

Of course what he really suggested was testing both the MAM-A and the TY disc and see if the quality ratio between the two had changed. That would be a valid test, I think.

It's been awhile since I last test burns from 4-5 years ago (for DVDs) but I didn't detect any problems or degradations. I store everything in the dark at 65-70 degrees. Cooler would be better, and I may move the into a closet where I sometimes store wine. It is 5-10 degrees cooler.