@John
What were the SD disc sales in that time period?
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Who cares John?

We are talking about HDM sales (Blu-ray vs HD DVD), not SD sales.

When HD DVD dies, then we will be talking about Blu-ray vs SD DVD sales.

"When HD DVD dies, then we will be talking about Blu-ray vs HD DVD sales."
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Umm... Why would we talk about HD DVD sales if HD DVD dies???

blink,

You ain't that stupid, are you?

But, thanks anyway for pointing my mistake, I corrected it.

I care about SD sales. It's going to be a long time before i even bother thinking about HD. I've got no interest in it until i can get an HD player for way under $100 (probably $50 would be more palatable), an HD display for way under $200, and HD movies for under $20 each. Until that time, SD DVDs surpass all my needs. I don't think i'm unique in that either.

Chienworks------ look carefully at the screen------- you are unique -------- your viewing needs are unique ----------- buy BluRay------------- sent $100 to this email address------ or just marry one of my Ex's, move to Northern Canada -------

article seems pretty stupid to me. A movie that was more popular that sold on two formats (BD & DVD) outsold a movie that sold on two formats (HD & DVD).

Glad to see someone's ability to read sales figures outshines actual news reporting ability.

What's next?: News flash! After everyone already owns a Wii & PS3 prices drop to $150 a system, PS3 outsells Wii 2:1! Wow! (rolls eyes)

I care about SD sales. It's going to be a long time before i even bother thinking about HD. I've got no interest in it until i can get an HD player for way under $100 (probably $50 would be more palatable), an HD display for way under $200, and HD movies for under $20 each. Until that time, SD DVDs surpass all my needs. I don't think i'm unique in that either.
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You aren't. This has been my argument against these two stupid format wars for some time. So, no you aren't unique. Our point of view represents the feelings of the average consumer and the sales figures demonstrate it.

Get this:

Someone in another similar thread actually claimed that rather than the high cost of adopting HD, the consumer wasn't buying into HD because of "confusion" over formats. How brainwashed does one have to be?

John

I am not too sure there is much to be surprised about here. One would figure that HD DVD would take a bit of a slide with the WB decision. My guess is that Toshiba even understood this. However, WB's decision has not KILLED hd dvd as many predicted. The retailers (in their own words) are still obligated to carry/sell HD DVD since there are still some mainstream movies that can not be had on BD.

The interesting part will be whether or not Toshiba's new pricing will have any impact which of course will not be known for a bit of time yet. It's a long shot granted, but not impossible. The other thing that should not be forgotten.... in fact it should be crystal clear by now that movie studios cross the floor about as often and as easily as the wind blows (which could of course work for or against HD DVD as with BD)

This whole thing leaves me sitting in quite the hole. I don't know whether to continue my home movies in HD DVD, or go to blu.... and if I went blu, then I would have to wait anyway because Blu Ray has no SAL players out there at the same level as my HD DVD player..... what a friggin mess!

Wow blink, that's some powerful denial.

HD DVD is a dead man walking. Some studios are contractually or morally committed to it for a few months, so they'll put out some more titles. And retailers are going to stock whatever titles come out, which will be a trickle, and stock the players until they run out, but how long do you really expect all that to last? What retailer wants to waste shelf space on a product that's getting such a tiny percentage of a small market-- and it's a percentage that won't grow, unlike the BR market. And do you really think Paramount and Universal are going to want to miss out on all of the sales they could be making if they supported BR? For example, with a new Indiana Jones movie coming out in a few months, don't you think Paramount would like to get the original films out in HD? Well, the only way they could do that is on BR, since that's all Spielberg allows (and how many sales would they get on HD-DVD vs. BR anyway).

Here's one last thing: What the studios and retailers say regarding continued support for HD-DVD is completely irrelevant; they can change their minds whenever they want (until Warner's announcement they said they'd stay neutral), and they don't want to piss off the customers by saying, right after the big Christmas purchases, that they're dropping the format.

The retailers (in their own words) are still obligated to carry/sell HD DVD since there are still some mainstream movies that can not be had on BD.

BZZZT! Wrong! Wal Mart announced, and repeated on CNN, that they are no longer going to feature any HD DVD hardware in their stores.

The other thing that should not be forgotten.... in fact it should be crystal clear by now that movie studios cross the floor about as often and as easily as the wind blows

Eh, actually, no. That has not really been the case. Not since they started in vesting in this. There has been no floor crossing, but Paramount are likely to be the first one later this winter or in the spring.

I don't think it's that hard to figure out.
I mean even right now if high capacity disk burning was economical on both sides would you select the format that uses 15gigs per single layer or 25 gigs, not to mention dual-layer 30gig hd-dvd compared to a 50 gig dual-layered Blu-Ray Disk.

The average movie is 2.5hrs long.
HD uses approx 12Gigs per hour encoded at an average of 25MBS (hd-mpeg2/avc-h264/V1).
So that's 32gig just for a 2.5 hr long movie, add in the previews, pcm audio and additional features you are around the 40gig range for a High Def full featured disk.
Dual-layer HD-DVD = 30gigs.
Dual-layer Blu-Ray = 50gigs.

What would you put your movie on to project the highest quality.
Even a triple-layer HD-DVD holds less than a dual-layer Blu-Ray Disk.
In the long run I don't think they have a choice.

"BZZZT! Wrong! Wal Mart announced, and repeated on CNN, that they are no longer going to feature any HD DVD hardware in their stores."

Walmart is one of those stores that does what it wants and dam every body else (Like I said... this is what happens when you give too much control to one operation)

Read this article: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&=&article_ID=11885
(Unfortunately their server seems to be down at the time of this post... try again later)





Are you kidding me???
Paramount crossed the floor TWICE, WB has now crossed the floor once, and Fox ALMOST crossed the floor and was bought back. These studios have no loyalty to anybody but themselves. They're like little scavengers at the feet of BD and HD DVD waiting for bones to be thrown their way. You flash enough money in front of them, and they sit up and beg.... play dead... roll over... and what ever else you ask of them. My honest opinion as to why HDM is such a mess right now.... the STUDIOS. Had they all gone neutral in the first place, we MAY have had a CLEAR winner by now and the consumers would be the ones to REALLY decide.

BZZZT! Wrong! Wal Mart announced, and repeated on CNN, that they are no longer going to feature any HD DVD hardware in their stores.
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Can you provide a link to the official announcement from Walmart after that statement?

You claim that "Walmart announced and repeated on CNN"...

............, yet when I watched the CNN broadcast it appears you are referring to I only see Stephen Pope of Cantor Fitzgerald, Europe claiming this about Walmart, not a Walmart representative.

Of course, I am not suggesting that CNN which is part of the same corporation as Warner Brothers (Time Warner) would "make it up".

Please provide the link to the official Walmart announcement Terje.

Regards,

John

This morning after dropping off my daughter and friends at the theaters to see "Water Horse", so I cruised over to the new Walmart superstore, sure enough the bulk of the HD DVD stuff was gone, except for one HD DVD display player. Asked a couple of questions of the dep manager and as we were talking, the big boss of regional was in the store and he injected the following; " local stores and regional management have a lot of control over what they stock and sell. " It appears the HD DVD has no future for shelve space in this region. The dep manager left me with impression that they were concern with product returns in the future as the HD market stabilizes. But policies changes quickly, if there is volume sells, it will be back. Why they reduce the HD DVD media is something I question, unless store thief is really high with this media. (note; Toshiba has been working with everyone).

Of course, I do not support HD DVD and believe Toshiba stock holders would be better served if the HD DVD became a secondary item, but not dead, in it's planning.

A side note, interesting enough, there is still VHS sales. So, its possible to maintain a HD DVD market for many years, even with DLing 720p HD media becomes common.

"A side note, interesting enough, there is still VHS sales."

lol, but I don't think there are still Beta sales. =)

- Ray
www.undergroundplanet.com

Betacam SP, Betacam Digital.
JJK

I still can't for the life of me figure out why this stupid "war" has enflamed such Mac/PC-type passion, especially before anyone had even ever used or seen either one. There are things worth getting riled up over. This isn't one.

I still can't for the life of me figure out why this stupid "war" has enflamed such Mac/PC-type passion, especially before anyone had even ever used or seen either one. There are things worth getting riled up over. This isn't one.
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Every monopolistic effort on the part of large corporations requires some brainwashing to succeed. You are listening to some of the trainees, that's all.
They could just as easily be trained to promote this stuff.

John

Paramount crossed the floor TWICE, WB has now crossed the floor once, and Fox ALMOST crossed the floor and was bought back.

Semantics perhaps. To me crossing the floor means moving from one format to the other. Paramount went from neutral to HD DVD and Warner from neutral to Blu. That isn't crossing the floor to me, but that is semantics.

That Fox should have seriously thought about crossing the floor is, as far as I can see, pure fantasy from the HD DVD side, in the same way that it is pure fantasy that Warner was seriously considering HD DVD towards the end of 2007.

The very antagonistic business relationship resulting from history between Fox and a prominent (take a guess) member of the HD DVD consortium would be a strong barrier to Fox going HD DVD unless they really had to. Fox hasn't been all that committed to HD it seems, but going HD DVD would have been almost impossible for them until HD DVD was the clear winner.

Warner decided to go Blu exclusive in September of 2007, and started working towards that goal then. Such things have to be vetted by lawyers and the whole thing. That they were bought is pure HD DVD consortium fantasy and contradicted by facts in the case. The reality is in fact the exact opposite. The HD DVD forum was aware that Warner was going Blu exclusively (they were probably informed about this at least as far back as in November, again, legal issues) and the HD DVD camp was trying to buy Warner back. In December the offer was, according to insiders, $300M, and Warner said "No thanks". The $500M number that was floating around the world a few weeks back therefore seems more likely to have been the HD DVD final offer, not a buy-out attempt from Blu, given that the decision was already made.

These studios have no loyalty to anybody but themselves.

Well, they shouldn't, and to a degree they are legally obliged to only have such loyalty. Now, they are also generally obliged to make as much money for their stock holders as they can, which means they have to try to do what the consumer wants. If they don't the consumer won't purchase their products and their profits will suffer.

<I>My honest opinion as to why HDM is such a mess right now.... the STUDIOS. Had they all gone neutral[/i]

Given the cost of production, the cost of marketing and the general cost of bringing a new format to town, this seems extremely unlikely. When you had the VHS vs Betamax war it lasted for a lot longer than the current one, and part of the reason was that there was significant content available on both sides. 100% studio neutrality would have made this war drag on for another 5 years.

The real culprit behind the war is Microsoft, and you really should have known that. Toshiba was ready to throw in the towel quite some time ago, but Microsoft persuaded Tosh to stay in the game. Why did Microsoft do this? Because Microsoft has everything to gain from the war going on forever. Follow the money blink. Microsoft is the only company that (theoretically) gains from an ongoing war. Toshiba sure as hell doesn't given that they lose a lot of money on every player sold, and there is no real upside for them, they can't re-coup that money anywhere down the line.

<I>have had a CLEAR winner by now and the consumers would be the ones to REALLY decide[/i]

The consumer did decide. Despite 2-1 standalone player sales for HD DVD they were never able to get past 2-1 software sales for Blu. Given the release schedule for HD DVD this spring, even without the Warner decision, HD DVD would have been trailing Blu significantly in software sales for 2008. In addition to that, in December of 2007, Blu even out-sold HD DVD standalone players (that is, PS3 not included) sales, despite a 2-1 price difference.

Think about that blink. HD DVD dumps players on the market at below production cost - the consumer shrugs and buys Blu players at twice the price. How would that lead to anything but the slow demise of HD DVD?

Semantics perhaps. To me crossing the floor ...........
etc
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Gee Terje,

You must have missed my post above asking you to provide a link to back up your "BZZZT..WRONG! ." statement regarding Walmart.

Regards,

John

Every monopolistic effort on the part of large corporations requires some brainwashing to succeed.

This is funny. For one, I have not seen any corporation engaged in monopolistic behavior in the case of the HDM war. Neither Blu nor HD DVD is owned by any single entity, in fact, no corporate entity even has a significant ownership here. Monopolistic behavior seems to exist only in the mind of the more conspiracy oriented individuals. Watch out, the Aliens are coming, get your tin hats out.

Also, confusing advertising and PR with brainwashing is not just a little sad.