This is a very nice post Spot. I am curious about something. Do you have current installations of FCP/Avid/Adobe CS? Or what's the latest versions of those tools you've worked with?

I'd be very interested to hear when you think those applications might be preferred.

Spot - I'm curious - in your experience, at what point does Vegas miss the mark and one has to move to another tool in order to deliver to film/broadcast? For other distribution outlets (DVD, Web), Vegas does an excellent job as a post production tool.

In my experience, Vegas still wins in ease of use. But is that ease of use at the expense of known standards by which others have to abide by - specifically for broadcast/film?

Cliff Etzel
Solo Video Journalist | Micro Documentary Film Maker
bluprojekt | SoloVJ Blog
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Desktop: OS: Win7 x64 | CPU: Q9400 | Mobo: Intel DG33TL | 8GB G.Skill Dual Channel RAM | Boot/Apps Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Audio Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Video Source: WD Black 2x750GB RAID 0 | Video Card: nVidia GeForce GT 220 1GB

Laptop: Dell Latitude D620 | C2D 2.0Ghz | 4GB G.Skill RAM | OS: Vista x64 | Primary HD: WD 320GB 7200RPM | Video HD: WD 250GB 5400RPM

bump

Within my experience shooting a number of shows that have been on either Discovery or PBS, exact adherence to their tech specs documents usually seems to require some fudge factors. Looking at the CTV Tech Specs document, it certainly seemed that XD-HD (50mbps) was ok'd - and Vegas 9 certainly is capable of that - as well as handily writing it straight to disc on a U1 drive (minimizing those expensive deck rentals). Of course the same document seemed to make no mention of Pro-Res, so would that mean that it is NG - or just that it hasn't been ok'd yet?
The one issue with XDcamHD/35Mbps is that it is both 1440x1080 and 4:2:0, so they may consider that two strikes (like HDV). Of course the XDcamEX with a NanoFlash gives you 1920x1080 at 50Mbps (or higher) at 4:2:2....

For my interest - I'm more concerned from an indie documentary filmmaker perspective than going to broadcast. I'm in film school part time to learn the art of documentary film making and I really want to clarify the capabilities of Vegas Pro for short to medium documentary film projects

I've searched on this topic and nothing exists. I'd like to get insights around workflow, grading, etc in Vegas - the tools are there - why hasn't anyone come to the forefront and said they could do it in Vegas? Can post production be done of an indie documentary in Vegas Pro? What hoops have to be jumped thru to get things done? No fanboism here - just want to know if I need to look elsewhere for post production of the projects I'm planning to shot for possible submission to film festivals, etc. PPro CS5 is looking like the app that will replace Vegas Pro if it can't be done. Better support for Cineform intermediates as well. And I've always thought Audition was a better tool for audio compared to Sound Forge.

Is there an unspoken reality that Vegas Pro can't step up to the plate and it's being kept quiet?

Cliff Etzel
Solo Video Journalist | Micro Documentary Film Maker
bluprojekt | SoloVJ Blog
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Desktop: OS: Win7 x64 | CPU: Q9400 | Mobo: Intel DG33TL | 8GB G.Skill Dual Channel RAM | Boot/Apps Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Audio Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Video Source: WD Black 2x750GB RAID 0 | Video Card: nVidia GeForce GT 220 1GB

Laptop: Dell Latitude D620 | C2D 2.0Ghz | 4GB G.Skill RAM | OS: Vista x64 | Primary HD: WD 320GB 7200RPM | Video HD: WD 250GB 5400RPM

Coming from a different perspective - as a DP who shoots for a number of companies - two of which edit on Vegas Pro (one of which convinced me to start using it) I've seen some limitations, but no more than with any other desktop edit system. Have run into some memory-related problems on a recent documentary project - dealing with literally hundreds of hours of footage, with several thousand shots in the project bin, originated from all over the globe in numerous formats, aspect ratios and frame rates, that necessitated breaking the project into sections. But I've seen similar or worse problems with shows on both Avid and Final Cut. Over the years I've seen Vegas introduce features (such as multiple formats and frame rates on the same timeline) long before its competitors. I particularly like Vegas because it typically can edit footage from newer formats (I have an XDcam EX and various smaller cameras) while other systems still exhibit glitches or provide no format support.
The biggest problem we've had with Vegas is finding qualified editors when we need additional hands on a project.

Ignoring the problems of this going crash when they shouldn't and indeed anything can do that and for a variety of reasons.

No reason why an idie movie of considerable merit couldn't be cut with Vegas. Anything fancy such as color correction and compositing etc you might well take outside of Vegas but the same applies to any NLE.

The problem that arises with big budget movies is they're a hugely collaborative effort involving 100s of people with an arena of specialised skills in post production. This is where you hit a brick wall with Vegas from two directions.

1) Asset management. Trying to manage 100,000s of files without asset management would drive the team insane and the production broke.

2) Timecode. You can get by without it, lining things up by eye, ear or with pip tracks but I'm heavily into audio post for a feature length movie at the moment and not having the security of everything locked to TC in Vegas is giving me a lot of heartburn.

Bob.

[edit] :)

3) Bankers and underwiters. They do like to hear the word "Avid". They're a conservative bunch that got rich by taking carefully measured gambles. A movie can tank for a variety of reaons and reducing the number of variables in their gamble is wise.