BUG? Audio bus w/Reverb FX keeps processing FX when stopping playback

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 5/20/2024, 3:23 PM

While troubleshooting recent less-table editing experiences, I observed something which appears as a bug to me, and which I wonder might be contributing to the instability.

The Observation:

When an audio bus has the Vegas REVERB effect on it and playback stops, the effect appears to keep processing (as observed on the track's meters).

The Theory:

Because it's still processing the effects, when quickly stopping or starting playback there is a process clash which happens as it waits for the previous thread to finish. (OK.. I really don't know what I'm saying here, but .. just consider it could cause a problem?)

Reproducing:

Add an event with audio track
Add an audio bus. Add the REVERB effect to it and select something with lasting decay (like Cathedral default)
Set the event's audio track to use that bus
Play and stop video playback. When stopped, you'll still see the meters ramp down on the audio bus. If you have the same REVERB effect on an audio track, it does not behave this way and properly stops instantly when playback stops. It only seems to happen on the audio bus.

Here is a video demonstrating the behavior:

Comments

rraud wrote on 5/21/2024, 8:58 AM

Do other reverb plug-ins exhibit the same behavior, Try another reverb plug-in, there are literally hundreds available for download.. free and otherwise.
Perhaps you are 'seeing' the reverb tail ,which can linger somewhat (depending on the reverb decay/time settings) after playback is stopped.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 5/21/2024, 9:12 AM

Do other reverb plug-ins exhibit the same behavior, Try another reverb plug-in, there are literally hundreds available for download.. free and otherwise.
Perhaps you are 'seeing' the reverb tail ,which can linger somewhat (depending on the reverb decay/time settings) after playback is stopped.

I suspect indeed it is the tail. Does not change this seeming like an audio bus bug.

No tail appears on the regular track meter, only the audio bus. (I will confirm by changing the range on the individual audio track meter)

mark-y wrote on 5/21/2024, 9:56 AM

Perhaps you are 'seeing' the reverb tail ,which can linger somewhat (depending on the reverb decay/time settings) after playback is stopped.

That was my first thought. Do you see any difference when using short vs. longest decay times?

rraud wrote on 5/22/2024, 10:14 AM

When playback is stopped, the reverb tail would also be present when used in the (traditional) aux send / return configuration. In Vegas: 'Insert> Audio assignable FX' .

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 5/22/2024, 11:27 AM

When playback is stopped, the reverb tail would also be present when used in the (traditional) aux send / return configuration. In Vegas: 'Insert> Audio assignable FX' .

You mean on the audio track where the FX is applied? Alas my video above doesn't show the Body Pack track which is feeding that Audio Bus but on the actual track where the FX is applied, the meter stops instantly (no tail), but the tail shows on the bus. I'd think they should behave identically, no?

VEGASDerek wrote on 5/22/2024, 11:48 AM

Hey Rob,

Is this a recent development or is this something that you have seen for a long time in older builds of VEGAS?

Currently we have not reproduced this. At this point, I am not sure if this is a bug or not, but I will make some inquiries.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 5/22/2024, 12:15 PM

Just created a 2-minute video from a blank project to demonstrate this better.

If the inconsistent tail behavior doesn't contribute to stability then I won't worry about it -- but since the BUS meters are behaving different from TRACK meters, it seemed noteworthy. And my stability issues didn't seem to amp up until I started using the audio bus (and disabling the reverb audio FX seemed help )

Oh .. @VEGASDerek.. to answer your question -- don't know! I haven't used Audio Busses to add AFX much in the past so I wouldn't have noticed. But HAVE been struggling a bit with stability so looking for a root cause.. thought this might be a lead.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 5/22/2024, 12:45 PM

Hey Rob,

Is this a recent development or is this something that you have seen for a long time in older builds of VEGAS?

Currently we have not reproduced this. At this point, I am not sure if this is a bug or not, but I will make some inquiries.

@VEGASDerek Here's a .ZIP file with the tiny .VEG file and one video clip that goes along with the video above to demonstrate the behavior.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qq5amwpneuafjzdjiwr2x/VegasAudioBus_ReverbTailDemo.zip?rlkey=1ds8hwb7rfry68yahf00y747c&st=gxjgi83a&dl=0

I'll keep it out there for a little bit. (the forum here won't allow .ZIP upload)

Robert Johnston wrote on 5/22/2024, 8:08 PM

@RedRob-CandlelightProdctns In Audio Device preferences, is the "Automatically detect and offset for hardware latency" unchecked? If so, try it with that enabled.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 5/22/2024, 8:20 PM

@RedRob-CandlelightProdctns In Audio Device preferences, is the "Automatically detect and offset for hardware latency" unchecked? If so, try it with that enabled.

Nope.. it's checked.

Robert Johnston wrote on 5/22/2024, 11:44 PM

@RedRob-CandlelightProdctns Playback buffering will cause it if it's too high. That's on Audio Device preferences, too. Well, any combination of settings could cause it. The two items I mentioned caused tails. Otherwise, when I put things back to default, when stop is pressed, no tails.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 5/23/2024, 7:07 AM

@RedRob-CandlelightProdctns Playback buffering will cause it if it's too high. That's on Audio Device preferences, too. Well, any combination of settings could cause it. The two items I mentioned caused tails. Otherwise, when I put things back to default, when stop is pressed, no tails.

And a bus should behave different from a track in this regard?

Robert Johnston wrote on 5/27/2024, 9:04 PM

@RedRob-CandlelightProdctns I tried two third-party reverb plug-ins in Vegas 21, one from Toneboosters and the other from Sound Forge (maybe Acid). When the pause or stop button is pressed, with the Toneboosters and Sound Forge reverb plugin, the loudness meters shut down immediately in the audio tracks and busses. The reverb that comes with Vegas seems to be the only one that causes the tails, sometimes. Except, I have to say that with the Sound Forge version the meters built into the reverb plugin artistically fade out when the stop or pause button is pressed, but the meters in the tracks and busses stop immediately with no tails. Since we are dealing with digital data, the meters should shut down immediately in busses and tracks when the pause or play button is pressed, unless the plugin designer is trying to emulate what happens with some analog meters. I really have no idea what the intent is.

rraud wrote on 5/28/2024, 10:26 AM

My Ultrafunk Direct X reverb has a "tail" option switch. The VST version does not have the option, but is otherwise identical. I would suspect the reverb is a Sound Forge Direct X plug-in where the tail option cannot be disabled. The tail option is primarily used in Sound Forge and extends the file. Otherwise it would be cut off.