Bug? Vegas drops&duplicates frames

rgr wrote on 2/27/2024, 5:12 AM

Can you confirm this error?

Steps to reproduce:

1. Download this file (1920x1080, 59.94fps, ProRes)

2. Place the file on the timeline and confirm "project setting match this media"

3. Frame 175 should be different from 176 and 177 from 178.

4. Go to "project properties" and change 59.940fps to 59.940 (just retype what you see).

5. Now Vegas simply deleted frame 176 and copied frame 175 in its place. Additionally, he moved frames from 178 one frame forward, and instead of frame 178, he duplicated frame 177. Tested on Vegas 19 and 21.

As I see, the file has fps in the form of 59940/1000, and Vegas expects 60000/1001 -- but such a minimal change should not cause such effects. In fact, it shouldn't cause any change.

Comments

RogerS wrote on 2/27/2024, 6:05 AM

Please upload the file somewhere we can download it from like Google Drive, Dropbox or Box.

rgr wrote on 2/27/2024, 7:22 AM

Please upload the file somewhere we can download it from like Google Drive, Dropbox or Box.

I thought you could download from here, but I see it doesn't work.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q2VDy7zSQM1nJAE2hLWB9VPjE_V48pyp/view?usp=drive_link
https://files.fm/u/av8nqcjfuh
(I use legacy decoding in Vegas)

 

RogerS wrote on 2/27/2024, 9:10 AM

Thanks, I see the same odd behavior and after I do that in 21 VEGAS shows the clip as unquantized as well!

So there must be a bug with manual entry in project properties?

Clicking the 29.9 preset and then back to 59.9 also shows the event is unquantized and I see the doubled frame. (175, 176 and 177,178 are the same)

(This is a ProRes file so there is no legacy decoding. It decodes with the Apple ProRes decoder built into so4compound.)

DMT3 wrote on 2/27/2024, 9:36 AM

It does the same thing in Version 20. If you park on one of the problem frames and undo and redo the properties change, you can see the frame jump. Very odd. And the unquantized warning changes as well. Bug

rgr wrote on 2/27/2024, 10:12 AM

What is "unquantized warning"?

I suspected this was a bug in the ProRes decoder, but after converting the file to avi the error still persists.
Vegas clearly doesn't do well when the file has *slightly* different fps (60000/1001 vs 59940/1000).

VEGASDerek wrote on 2/27/2024, 11:16 AM

We have reproduced the problem. We will add this to our bug database. Thank you.

rgr wrote on 2/27/2024, 11:23 AM

Thanks, I understand.

About GoPro: I had the same problem with my Sony camera, but later found an option to turn it off. You may also have this option.
In short, the camera in low light increases the exposure time, but you get duplicate frames.

Former user wrote on 2/27/2024, 5:06 PM
 

In short, the camera in low light increases the exposure time, but you get duplicate frames.

Some cameras especially phones and security cameras will change frame rate mid recording if light levels change, this causes NLE's problems, even black frames, although I think that's more of a bug in being able to handle the change of frame rate, so would not expect that from all NLE's, duplicate frames is expected though.

rgr wrote on 2/27/2024, 6:42 PM

I had the same problem with my Sony camera, but later found an option to turn it off. You may also have this option.
In short, the camera in low light increases the exposure time, but you get duplicate frames.

You remind me!
Yes, duplication almost in dark scenes.

My GoPro doesn't have such an option, and my GH5s can max 30p in Log/HLG formatk, no drops no duplicates.

Yes, you have

Here5 recordings are VFR?

"AUTO LOW LIGHT
Auto Low Light allows you to shoot in low-light environments or when quickly transitioning in and out of low-light conditions. When possible, the camera automatically adjusts fps to achieve the optimal exposure and best results.
The options for this setting are On (default) and Off. Auto Low Light is available for frame rates higher than 30fps.
When Auto Low Light and Video Stabilization are both on and Auto Low Light activates because of dark lighting conditions, Video Stabilization is temporarily turned off to deliver optimal image quality in the dark scene.
To access this advanced setting, see Navigating with the Touch Display (page 17)."

Robert Johnston wrote on 2/27/2024, 11:34 PM

After manually entering 59.940 in Project settings, I saw the duplicate frames at the mentioned positions in the OP's clip. Then when I right clicked on the clip on the timeline and selected Properties from popup menu, then clicked the Conform to Project Frame Rate button, the duplicates went away. The velocity envelope is turned on and shows 100%, but the amount must be stored internally slightly differently. The end of the clip also turns red showing an unquantized frame of miniscule size. I tried manually entering 59.940 in project settings again, but that didn't cause dup frames because the velocity envelope was still active, showing 100%. Resampling disabled.

Intel Core i7 10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz (to 4.65GHz), NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GBytes. Memory 32 GBytes DDR4. Also Intel UHD Graphics 630. Mainboard: Dell Inc. PCI-Express 3.0 (8.0 GT/s) Comet Lake. Bench CPU Multi Thread: 5500.5 per CPU-Z.

Vegas Pro 21.0 (Build 108) with Mocha Vegas

Windows 11 not pro

Former user wrote on 2/28/2024, 12:48 AM

After manually entering 59.940 in Project settings, I saw the duplicate frames at the mentioned positions in the OP's clip. Then when I right clicked on the clip on the timeline and selected Properties from popup menu, then clicked the Conform to Project Frame Rate button, the duplicates went away.

I can vaguely recall John Dennis or MusicVid mentioning something along those lines a while ago. Would be good if we could have a bug/unusual anomalies related to Vegas, database. I see it often that problems are discovered,then forgotten,then rediscovered again.

RogerS wrote on 2/28/2024, 12:59 AM

Nick had such a list that was updated for a while but I think it was too much for volunteers to maintain.

VEGASSteve wrote on 7/5/2024, 5:35 AM

This bug should have been fixed, it should be in the next update. We had a precision error for files with non integer frame rates, e.g. 59.94 and 29.97.

gorGaram wrote on 7/5/2024, 5:57 AM

Can you confirm this error?

Steps to reproduce:

1. Download this file (1920x1080, 59.94fps, ProRes)

2. Place the file on the timeline and confirm "project setting match this media"

3. Frame 175 should be different from 176 and 177 from 178.

4. Go to "project properties" and change 59.940fps to 59.940 (just retype what you see).

5. Now Vegas simply deleted frame 176 and copied frame 175 in its place. Additionally, he moved frames from 178 one frame forward, and instead of frame 178, he duplicated frame 177. Tested on Vegas 19 and 21.

As I see, the file has fps in the form of 59940/1000, and Vegas expects 60000/1001 -- but such a minimal change should not cause such effects. In fact, it shouldn't cause any change.

21(315) - NO reproduce, 20(411) - reproduce.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X

VideoCard: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 16Gb

Memory: 128Gb

OS: Windows 10 (1809)

Drive C: (SSD-500Gb) - ONLY system

Drive D: (HDD 4Tb) - ProrgamFiles and Temp
Drive E: (HDD 4Tb) - Work drive

Vegas Pro: 20.411, 21.315, 22.122