[bugs] Vegas 20 - 403 has serious workflow bugs for audio professional

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 1:30 PM

Long story short;

Vegas (since 20) is totally unusable for audio professionals who rely on 3rd party VST(2 / 3) plugins.

I have created several tickets, contacted support and even offered solutions, but no one is listening.

This post is a new attempt to get some ones attention.

In Vegas 20 - build 360 the bugs below were there and in build 403 they are even worse.

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1. When toggling the state of a plugin (on/off) with the left mouse button (from the Audio Plugin Tab Window) they get re-ordered (in the chain).

This affects all plug-ins, not only third party.

When right clicking (and toggling) or when executing the command from the Mixing Console, the order keeps intact.

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2. When undoing a simple parameter (e.g. 1dB to 2dB) the memory overflows with hundreds of useless undo-states (1.01 dB / 1.02 dB / etc... until it "reaches" 2dB).

This is for all 3rd party plugins and for e.g. Melda plugin in particular (the even freeze the GUI because the system can not handle all those requests; somethings thousand per millisecond).

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3. The GUI of all plugins are redrawn unnecessary with every singe undo / redo stack, causing the screen to flicker, resulting in a disruptive workflow (and there is a change that RX plugins (9 or 10) do freeze and crash, because it's very memory intensive what Vegas does).

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4. Plugins like Melda simple freeze or get extreme sluggish in build 403, because every pixel you change inside a plugin (moving a slider or EQ-point 10 pixels to the right or left) overflows Vegas with hundreds of useless undo-states, even when you select to bypass the FX undo.

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Point 4 is new to Vegas build 403, it is not in build 360.

Build 403 : https://i.ibb.co/h2JDmhz/build-403.gif

Build 360 : https://i.ibb.co/P6xMTPV/build-360.gif

What you see is the fluid movement of the cursor, but a freezing / sluggish movement when you try to adjust a plugin.

You are "fighting" with the mouse to move a parameter from left / right or make a slider adjustment.

IF THERE IS ANYTHING I CAN DO TO SUPPORT THE DEVS, PLEASE CONTACT ME @PM

Comments

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 3:39 PM

Above image show when Vegas 20 crashes or at least disrupts the order of the plugins.

Toggle with left-mouse = crash (GUI will freeze) / the ordering becomes corrupt.

Toggle with right-mouse = no problem.

Above image show in build 403 that moving this EQ point (or a slider) from 3rd party VST is extreme slow / sluggish (GUI freezes because every pixel you move it overflows memory with useless "undo states").

I have reported this months ago, but the problems in newest build only became more worse.

bitman wrote on 5/9/2023, 3:12 AM

@Peterson 

point 1: (toggling the state of a plugin (on/off) with the left mouse button): I cannot reproduce, seems OK to me on my PC

point 2: It does seem to track a lot not needed in-between states for undo purposes when turning a a knob for instance from a begin to a final state. Not sure if Vegas is to blame if the plugin insists on sending all changes while turning the knob or slider. It sure is not ideal nor wanted; a beefy PC can probably handle it without crashing, but again, it is not ideal.

point 3: Indeed the GUI redraw flickers distractingly. How can this be in this day and age? Are they using an slow interpreting language instead of compiled code? A modern 3D shooter could handle V. refresh rates of 240 Hz...

point 4: I do not have Melda...

 

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 314), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

bitman wrote on 5/9/2023, 3:13 AM

@Peterson Post your specs if possible.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 314), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

Peterson wrote on 5/9/2023, 7:55 AM

@Peterson 

point 1: (toggling the state of a plugin (on/off) with the left mouse button): I cannot reproduce, seems OK to me on my PC

point 2: It does seem to track a lot not needed in-between states for undo purposes when turning a a knob for instance from a begin to a final state. Not sure if Vegas is to blame if the plugin insists on sending all changes while turning the knob or slider. It sure is not ideal nor wanted; a beefy PC can probably handle it without crashing, but again, it is not ideal.

point 3: Indeed the GUI redraw flickers distractingly. How can this be in this day and age? Are they using an slow interpreting language instead of compiled code? A modern 3D shooter could handle V. refresh rates of 240 Hz...

point 4: I do not have Melda...

 

1. It does not happen every time, it's complete random

2. This bug is 'introduced' in version 20, but you could bypass it by opting "not saving undo states for FX" in the options - in build 403 this option does nothing now (it doesn't save the states, but the states are still shoot into memory)

3. Bad GUI libraries

4. I work 50% with RX and 50% with Melda (I use Vega for audio).

Specs : Intel 12th generation i9, 128GB memory, 4TB Samsung Pro SSD, NVIDIA RTX 4090

But it also happens on other machines here (the above is the most powerful I have).