Building video computer for Vegas editing

incipient wrote on 6/15/2005, 9:48 PM

Hi,
I'm getting ready to build a computer for a friend who is a video editing hobbyist. He is experienced with Vegas and plans to use mostly Vegas 6+DVD on the new machine. He is not a gamer at all, so that is not even a consideration. This will, however, be his main machine for regular computer stuff (we're college-age students), so he will be using it for day-to-day stuff as well as editing in Vegas (maybe once a month will he actually do a video project).

I thought I'd run my preliminary specs by you all and ask for any wisdom and input. Below I'll list the components I'm eyeing right now with a little explanation for each (whether I'm right or wrong, I don't know). The budget I'm working with is $1800, give or take. Prices include shipping and are mostly from Newegg or ZipZoomFly.

* CPU: Athlon 64 3700+ ($328)
Good performance for the money, especially considering this will be used for day-to-day stuff and not just video. I also like the upgrade path to 64-bit Windows and to dual-core without requiring a new motherboard.

* Mobo: Gigabyte GA-K8NF-9 ($100)
Seems like a good full-featured board from a top-tier vendor for a reasonable price.

* HDD 1 (system drive): 80GB SATA (haven't picked specific model yet) (~$60)
Will probably just get the cheapest WD or Seagate or whatever with 8MB cache. Recommendations welcomed.

* HDD 2 (video drive): Maxtor MaXLine III 7L300SO 300GB SATA 16MB w/NCQ ($210)
Seems to be the largest-capacity drive out there that has both 16MB cache and NCQ.

* RAM: 2 x 1GB Rosewill DDR400 2.5 latency ($188)
Pretty much the cheapest pair of name-brand 1GB sticks I saw.

* Display adapter: ASUS Extreme AX300SE-X PCIe-x16(Radeon X300SE) 128MB ($60)
Remember, no games will be played on this machine. So all we need in a card is just something with DVI output, right? I don't see a reason to get anything more expensive.

* DVD Burner: LiteOn SOHW-1693S - Retail w/ Nero ($56)
Cheapest retail dual layer drive I've found that is from a brand I trust.

* DVD/CDRW combo drive: Rosewill RB-321 - Retail ($33)
Cheapest combo drive I've found from a brand I trust.

* Case: Antec Solution SLK3800B (Black) w/400W PS ($104)
I don't know much about power supplies, but I've heard nothing but good about Antec, so I just kept it simple on myself and went with the cheapest Antec case/PS combo that is 400W+ and is ATX 12V 2.0.

* Video I/O: External firewire box (~$200)
I will have Firewire on the motherboard, so this is mainly for analog I/O. Haven't researched this yet. Any insights would be appreciated.

* Monitor: 19" LCD monitor (~$350)
Haven't researched this yet either. We're not too picky but would like something nice. I use the Dell 1905FP at work and like it a lot, but it may be a little out of our price range. Something comparable would be nice.

* OS: Windows XP Professional ($134)
Don't know why, I've just been told to go with XP Pro for video editing.

***Total of above amounts: $1853

So what do you guys think, given my friend's budgetary restraints? I would greatly appreciate any advice or input about any of the components I listed or any good alternatives you think I should consider. And for the components I haven't researched yet (monitor, external I/O), any leads would be fantastic. Thanks!

Comments

GlennChan wrote on 6/15/2005, 10:52 PM

CPU: There is a very similar thread going on in this forum.
http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=397397&Replies=8
Basically: AMD64: Venice core is likely a better idea than San Diego core.

Intel may be better performance/buck. Especially if you consider getting a refurb Dell or Dell hot deal as suggested in that thread. And if you don't pay for your electricity, that's another plus for Intel.
The CPU probably makes the biggest difference. It also makes a difference whether you build it yourself, or take advantage of a Dell deal (or other manufacturer's refurb).

Mobo: Can't comment here.

Hard drives: More storage is better, that's for sure.
Brand doesn't really matter all that much... each brand has its pluses for performance, noise, reliability, and warranty. I like Seagate because they're cheap, quiet, reliable (pretty good according to storagereview.com database), and have 5 year warranty. They typically perform a little slower than other brands. So there's your tradeoff (Maxtor is like the opposite, except they're also cheap). For DV it shouldn't be a problem.

Sometimes the big chains run loss leaders on hard drives, so it might be worth picking that up for the price.

RAM: Not much difference here. Just don't pay extra for overclocking or low latency RAM, because even if they make a few percent difference they're still not worth the money (generally speaking).
Corsair value select at newegg might be cheaper, and that is a good brand (same with mushkin, crucial; slightly lower tier would be kingston, OCZ).
For Vegas you may not really need that much RAM.
On Intel platforms, 4X512MB may be faster by a few percent. This may be incompatible on AMD64 platforms.

Video card: I slightly prefer Nvidia, but it's not a big deal. Nvidia has better openGL acceleration and dual monitor drivers.

DVD Burner: Not a big differences here. It's debatable which is the best DVD burner to get... if you want to go insane with your research, check out cdfreaks.com
Top burners seem to be NEC3500a (discontinued), Pioneer, BenQ
They all have tradeoffs.

Case: Antec cases are pretty good value. If you move the computer around a lot, consider an aluminium case like the Centurion 5 (get a Sparkle or Fortron PSU for it). Aluminium cases are a lot lighter.

Video I/O: Your deck or camcorder can handle this. In particular scenarios, a convertor box like the Canopus ADVC-100 (there's a newer model) would be nice (handles 7.5IRE setup properly, and doesn't tie up your camcorder/deck).

Monitor: You might want to look for a hot deal on a LCD. Dell has them sometimes.
gotapex.com, bensbargains.net, etc. I'd read the forums.
Get something with lots of screen real estate + pixels. Two monitors can be good for this.

OS: XP Home should be fine?

incipient wrote on 6/16/2005, 4:09 PM

glennchan - thanks for the detailed response.

I would rather use an nVidia display adaptor too, but for something that's just there for it's DVI output, the cheapest I nVidia I found on Newegg was at least $20 or $30 more than the decent $60 ATI one I listed. I could still be persuaded to go for the nVidia, just not sure if it's really worth it.

I thought I'd post the video convertors I'm looking at. Any feedback at all about these would be very nice, since I'm not really familiar with them:
> Plextor PX-M402U
> Plextor PX-TV402U
> Creative 70SB048000000 Sound Blastery Audigy 2 Video Editor
> Turtle Beach TBS-1500-01

Thanks folks!

GlennChan wrote on 6/16/2005, 8:40 PM

I would avoid stuff that doesn't capture DV.
DV is just so much easier to work with.

2- As I already mentioned, if you want to capture analog your deck or camcorder will likely handle it if it has analog in.

Tattoo wrote on 6/16/2005, 9:27 PM

Given that you do have modest budget constraints and that your friend doesn't do video editing full time, I wonder if the extra money you've allocated for the 3700+ is necessary. I'm thinking you might like the 3200+ (at $200) or the 3000+ (at $150) just as well for day to day use, and not mind the (maybe) 10% performance hit. [Look at the very minor difference between the 3700+ and the 3400+ render times in the post referenced above (78 seconds vs. 79 seconds).] You could allocate the money elsewhere (like dual monitors) or just save it for the dual-core X2 upgrade. Since he's not editing all the time, the lesser CPUs should be fine for editing and he can always let it render overnight if it's a huge project.

If you're concerned about loosing that last notch of performance, it looks like you can easily make some *minor* overclocking with the A64 Venice core. If you're interested read the article I referenced in the following post and decide for yourself.
http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=395506

$328 just seems like a lot of money to spend (over 18% of budget) for a CPU that you are already considering upgrading in the future. (Socket 939 is a sweet upgrade when the X2 prices come down!...)

For what it's worth, I'd much rather have two 17" monitors than one 19" monitor. I don't have either setup, but I'd love to be able to put the preview screen and various toolbars on one screen and leave the editing area on another. As mentioned previously, a lot more real estate.

Brian

Peeks wrote on 6/16/2005, 10:32 PM

The only advise i can give is not to use any Pinnacle capture card with analog capabilities as its not compatible with Vegas.

Hope you get your machine up and running soon.

Goodluck!Ü

GlennChan wrote on 6/17/2005, 8:10 AM

The one second difference is probably because the 3700+ is a san diego core (higher cache instead of clock speed) versus the 3400+, which uses a different processor core (likely more geared towards higher clock speed).

(probably mentioned this before)
Dividing clock speeds among the *same* processor line/core is a good way to approximate rendertest.veg performance. Unfortunately it's very confusing because AMD and Intel have multiple processor lines.

Like Tattoo said, it might make sense to get a slightly lower clocked processor. 10% slower will be barely noticeable but it'll make a noticeable difference to your bank account. Considering how computers get faster and cheaper, you're probably only buying something to use for 2-4 years.

masmedia wrote on 6/17/2005, 10:33 AM

I would recommend it having analog inputs. I have a similar system and am also doing what you want to, but this is the only hitch I've had so far... the bridges are not cheap!

incipient wrote on 6/17/2005, 10:57 AM

Yeah, in regard to analog inputs, that's just for ease of use when working with analog equipment. Plus it would be nice to get something with analog outputs as well, for easy output to VHS or whatever. But that's a good point, that all of that could be run through the camcorder, most likely. I'm conflicted about it. The Creative unit I referenced above looks very complete in terms of inputs and outputs for both video and audio. If he wants to do any audio-only work, it might be very nice to have, so I'll have to ask him about that.

Thanks for the advice about processor speed. I will definitely take that into consideration. For those lower clock speed Athlon 64's, should I go for Venice, Newcastle, or Winchester? (We are not interested in overclocking, if that helps).

incipient wrote on 6/17/2005, 10:58 AM

One other thing, anyone have any tips on where/when to look to get a Dell 1905FP display for cheap? I've heard people talk about it sometimes being available for around $300-350, but on Dell's site it's something like $479 right now.

Tattoo wrote on 6/17/2005, 2:46 PM

Venice is the newest of those three. It's the only one (of those three) to support SSE3 which could be beneficial. It also runs the coolest of the three. I think Venice (also referred to as "Rev E") is a no brainer, even if you don't overclock.

GlennChan wrote on 6/17/2005, 4:20 PM

You have to wait until Dell has a sale or coupon on them.
OR you can try calling various Dell salesman and see who is the most aggressive.

You can try hot deals sites... examples: gotapex.com, bensbargains.net, fatwallet.com
See what people say in the forums.

2- If you look at benchmarks for MEG2 encoding (main concept encoder), processors with the SSE3 instruction set do a lot better.

incipient wrote on 6/17/2005, 4:42 PM

So given this choice, which would you recommend?
> 3200+ Venice for $188
> 3400+ Winchester for $179

Not sure which way to go with that. SSE3 or extra Mhz.

Also, now that I've asked about the 1905FP, I realize that I was looking in the Dell Small Business section. It's currently going for $383.20 in their Home and Home Office section, which pretty much makes my decision for me.

Tattoo wrote on 6/17/2005, 10:34 PM

I'm not sure which would be the absolute fastest for video. Based on the threads here, I'd guess that the 3400+ (running at 2.2-2.4Ghz) would have the edge over the 3200+ (running at 2.0 Ghz). However, it looks like every 3400+ model is a socket 754 and 130nm process (versus socket 939 and 90nm). That means you have zero dual core future upgrade options, and it'll run a little hotter and use a little more electricity.

The Venice core is getting my money when I finally get off the dime in a few months and build a new system.

GlennChan wrote on 6/18/2005, 12:15 PM

The Venice core also has some other improvements in the memory controller, so you can run 4 sticks of RAM at 400mhz (instead of 333mhz).

The 90nm process processors tend to consume less electricity than the 130nm ones (which may mean the price difference is less in the long run).
I think the Winchester cores are 90nm process.

incipient wrote on 6/18/2005, 2:49 PM

I ended up going with the 3200+, at least in part because I wasn't finding any 3400+'s in retail packages (just OEM). Sounds like the 3200 Venice will be a good balance for this machine. I will get back on later and post the final component list we went with, in case it helps anyone else who comes upon this thread later.

incipient wrote on 6/19/2005, 4:49 PM

As promised, here is what we finally ended up getting for this machine:

Processor: Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8NF-9 (no SATA2)
HDD 1: WD 80GB
HDD 2: Maxtor MaXLine III 7L300SO 300GB SATA 16MB
RAM: Corsair ValueSelect 1GB (x2)
Graphics Card: Sapphire 100591L (Radeon X300) PCIe-x16 128MB
DVD Burner: Benq DW1620 Pro - Retail - Nero - w/CDRs and DVDRs
DVD Burner #2: Used Lite-On 8X from a friend of ours ($30)
Case: Antec Solution SLK3800B (Black) w/400W
Wireless Card: Netgear WG311
Monitor: Dell 1905FP
Video I/O: Creative 70SB048000000 Sound Blastery Audigy 2 Video Editor
Card Reader: ATech Pro9
Software: Windows XP Professional w/SP2

Total Costs (including shipping and tax, where applicable): $1777.84
Gives us a good figure to laugh at a year or two down the road.

Aside from the used DVD burner (bought it off a friend), the Dell monitor (dell.com), and the wireless card (CompUSA) we bought everything else from Newegg, ZipZoomFly, and ChiefValue.

GlennChan wrote on 6/19/2005, 7:19 PM

incipient, when you build this machine I'd be curious to how well it does in rendertest.veg
(please post which version of Vegas you used).

No one really has definitive results for AMD64.

tjburton wrote on 6/21/2005, 6:02 AM

I would have posted earlier, but did not see this thread....

Be aware that Sony currently has problems with Nforce chipsets.. I have a system I just built on the Gigabyte K8NS - Pro and I have no availability to CD or DVD drives in Sony's software.

If you have problems seeing your drives with Vegas (or any other Sony software), contact support for a patch that might work... Unfortunately their current patch does not work for me.

So I have to use other burning software for my DVD, CD.

Sony must access drives differently than most other media software, all of my other media software recognizes my drives.

Good Luck!!

TheRhino wrote on 6/21/2005, 10:20 AM

tjburton, which version of Vegas are you using?

Vegas 4.0 and 5.0 would not recognize my new IDE DVD+/-R drives that were introduced after the software was published. I was totally frustrated when none of my new dual layer drives were recognized and was in a panic because I had already sold the old ones to some coworkers.

In a panic, I placed my drives in external firewire enclosurers and Vegas recognized them. I then installed them internally by removing the firewire interface from the external casing. BTW, Vegas/DVDa would NOT recognize these same drives in external USB cases, only firewire. DVDa actually identifies the drive's name correctly, etc. and reports the correct burning speeds for whatever t ype of media used.