Burning High Definition (Blu-Ray) Movie to DVD

ToranDell wrote on 7/4/2009, 8:21 AM

A frequent reader here but I rarely post (being a "serious" hobbyist only) so I hope that (a) I might get some advice/help on a particular problem and (b) folk will be patient with me!

I have had a High Definition camcorder for about 18 months now. Prior to my purchase of a Blu-Ray player I created menu-driven standard definition DVDs using Sony Vegas Movie Studio and the Studio version of DVD Architect. All of that was fine and produced nice movies of my holidays, though I was obviously not getting the best from the files from my HD camcorder.

When I purchased a Blu-Ray player (Samsung BP-1500) about 6 months ago I started to re-do the projects creating high definition movies onto DVD still using Vegas Movie Studio (Platinum Pro v9) but as a single movie disk. This again worked fine (at least at that point) although I found I could only get the Sony AVC Blu-ray 1440x1080-50i Mbps template to work rather than the MainConcept MPEG-2 templates (by the way, I'm in the UK so it is PAL-land here).

When Sony was offering 35% off just before Easter I upgraded to Vegas Pro v8.0c. This was largely to (a) be able to create Blu-ray movies/discs with menus and (b) so that I could use scripts (and in particular the Deshaker script which, incidentally, is brilliant for the likes of me using a handheld all of the time).

My workflow is to import the scenes that I want for a particular "chapter", trim/edit them, run Deshaker (compressing inbound), add effects (usually just sharpen and New Blu Color-Fixer) and then rendering the "chapter" into Sony AVC format. Having done that for all of the chapters, I then use DVD Architect Pro to create the Blu-ray disc with menu(s) onto a "normal" DVD. DVD Architect Pro says that it does not need to re-render the "chapters".

I have done this successfully once with a short movie of our holiday last November. I think (at least for my purposes) the outcome was pretty darn good.

I have just finished rendering all of the "chapters" for an earlier holiday and created the Blu-ray disc with menu(s) in DVD Architect Pro. I've rendered a "test" onto a DVD and find that the Blu-ray player says it cannot play the disc! I have then gone back and tried to play the disc I created from the first project - and it won't play either! Groan.

Now there are two possible culprits. Firstly I have just replaced my AV Amplifier/Receiver with one that has HDMI inputs/outputs (previously the video output from the Blu-ray player went to the TV via HDMI and audio to the old amplifier via optical) but I cannot see how this would result in the Blu-ray player saying it cannot play the disc. Secondly, much more likely - and obviously - is that fact that I have just updated the firmware on the Blu-ray player.

My options seem to be:

(a) try to contact Samsung customer support though I suspect that will be a waste of time
(b) save up to buy a Blu-ray rewriter (which will have to be an external one for me)

Before I give up, however, I wondered if there was anything I ought to be trying with Sony Vegas Pro 8.0c and/or DVD Architect Pro.

By the way, I do realise (if I understand other threads correctly) that trying to burn Blu-ray onto DVD has an element of chance. I thought from my first project that I had been lucky! I have tried DVD+R and DVD-R and I use high quality discs (the fact that I had got the first project done OK would seem to suggest that this isn't the issue).

Any ideas most gratefully received especially from folk who have tried to do similar.

Thanks in advance.

Comments

blink3times wrote on 7/4/2009, 8:39 AM

"Secondly, much more likely - and obviously - is that fact that I have just updated the firmware on the Blu-ray player."

This is most likely your problem.

From what I understand various player manufacturers are intentionally crippling the playback of avchd disks.... or at least making it tougher to do.

Read the last post on this page of the AVS forum... then flip to post number 4419 (on next page 148)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1029955&highlight=samsung+bp+1500+firmware&page=147

ToranDell wrote on 7/4/2009, 9:13 AM

Blink....

MANY thanks for that. I've just read the posts you linked to and it seems that Samsung have indeed removed from their latest firmware upgrades support for AVCHD-compliant discs compiled in a BD9 directory structure. It is a pity that this was not made clear in their "release notes" for the upgrades! I, for one, will now be (a) wary of buying Samsung and (b) more wary of upgrades on the principle of if it ain't broken don't fix it.

At least it wasn't me! But this does demonstrate the complexity and challenges of AVCHD and Blu-ray at the moment. Manufacturers sure aren't making it easy for us.

I'm now going to try some of the solutions referred to in that forum.

Again, many thanks for your help.

blink3times wrote on 7/4/2009, 9:44 AM

Well the "avchd disk" is not a part (and never was) of the official bd spec so manufacturers are quite free to do as they will with it. Not withstanding, there are 2 avchd folder structure standards (one being sony and the other being canon/panasonic) and complicate that with the fact that neither are a true match to the bd folder structure..... and you have a questionable mess on your hands.

But yes... too many people do firmware upgrades just because "they're there" and don't have any other specific need for it. You always take risks when doing firmware upgrades so it should NOT be taken as lightly as most people do.

My Toshiba A1 has the original firmware and works just fine. I won't bother "experimenting" with further upgrades at the risk of 'bricking' a machine that I can no longer replace.

As for "AVCHD disks"... I would get out of it and go on to real Blu Ray. The prices have dropped and you can now pick up 25gig disks for as low as $2.99. At that price one starts to wonder whether or not the avchd disk is actually worth it... especially when it really has no official support and the rug can be pulled at any time..... as you have already witnessed

CorTed wrote on 7/4/2009, 11:01 AM

I agree with Blink, I just purchased a spindle with 25 BD disks for $49 at Fry's.That's under $2 ea. In additon you can also pick up a BD writer for under $150.
No need to make BD disks on DVD disks. I also found that you have to set the bitrate so low in order for the disk to keep up which gave me too many artifacts.

Ted

ToranDell wrote on 7/4/2009, 11:59 AM

Here in the UK the cheapest external Blu-ray writer is about £183 (I'm quoting an Amazon price) which is about $288. The cheapest Blu-ray discs are about £2.50 - those are Sony's own - but the writer I refer to won't work with Sony discs so I understand. The next cheapest are around £5 (=just under $8).

I don't disagree with either of you and I definitely think that going for BD writer and discs is the way forward. And the costs of the discs aren't the problem - I will just have to save up for the rewiter. In the meantime I will just have to prepare my projects and then test them out when I've saved enough to buy a writer.

David Laine wrote on 7/6/2009, 12:23 PM

Hi

Sounds like you have problems like me

Why not try making a short AVCHD in demo Corel x2 or Pinnacle and see if your samsung plays it

Then try running the BD DVD you made in the Sony through "tsMuxer" sellecting AVCHD output

You may find that like me both things work for you and it looks like Sony are missing the AVCHD option that Corel and other cheap software has

Dave

David Laine wrote on 7/6/2009, 12:57 PM

Hi

As I have said on another post there is a diferance between BD and AVCHD it is in 3 files on the disc you can read about the chages needed to theBD files here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15285018&postcount=1662

Somwhare on the net is a great posting giving loads more info but i read it saturday and now cannot find it

this is from
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/help-with-bd-p1500-and-mkv-via-avchd-t360817.html
"I have a samsung BD-P1500 and I can confirm that it does play all the avchd discs I have made for it using tsmuxer or ripbot264 and then burning using imageburn. "

Dave

Emulgator wrote on 7/6/2009, 11:54 PM

multiAVCHD (Freeware, written by Dean Kasabov) is now in build 666.
Using tsMuxeR, x264, eac3to and other freeware tools and delivering AVCHD and BD-compatible structures.

Seems to be able to do almost all you need on AVCHD volumes, taking care of different implementations (even Panasonic Viera TVs)...

Using multiAVCHD I could finally see my pristine x264 encodes as AVCHD on a standalone Panasonic BD-50 player.

DVD-A 5.0 and SonicDVDitProHD6.4 unfortunately refused to pass this flavour of MPEG4 video through for BD muxing and always forced a reencode to lesser MPEG2.

Why oh why. The x264stream was playable in standalone and looked better.

David Laine wrote on 7/7/2009, 2:33 AM

Hi Emulgator

Great info thanks for that

Does anyone from Sony bother to look at this forum -

I ask cos if I had a forum on my site where I sold software and people posted info of freeware that could do what my expensive software could not do i would sort out my product PDQ

Or are we AVCHD users going to be expected to pay for an upgrade to pro 10 / DVD arcitect 6 to get what freeware gives us now . . . .

I am thinking of taking the non writing of AVCHD files up with my CC Co and asking for a refund as the software does not do what Sony say it should as per here

"How do I burn an AVCHD disc in Vegas Platinum or in Vegas Pro 8.0?

Answer
The first step is to successfully import your AVCHD footage into Vegas. If you are unsure how to do this, please click here to read how to do it.

Once you have imported and edited your footage, you will need to go to Tools > Burn Disc > Blu-ray. At this point you will have several options, but to burn a standard AVCHD format disc, you will select "Render image and burn". Then you can select the format and template. You can pick from several formats, but you would want to pick one that is as close to the original as possible. For example, if you shot your footage as 1920x1080 AVCHD, you will want to render out to the same format.

Make sure the correct drive is selected, then burn your disc. Note, you can burn Blu-ray footage to a standard layer DVD (commonly refered to as a "Blu-ray formatted disc"), but this type of disc will be limited in space (4.7 gigabytes for a single-layer or 8.5 gigabytes for a dual-layer disc). Also, it will not play back on all DVD players, only those DVD players support the playback of Blu-ray formatted discs."

From

http://www.custcenter.com/cgi-bin/sonypictures.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4415&p_created=1231363560&p_sid=hXq3ndCj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTIsMTImcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1hdmNoZA**&p_li=&p_topview=1

Maybe if others did the same we might get Sony to sort it FOC

Dave

David Laine wrote on 7/7/2009, 12:44 PM

Iv'e been asking around and it would seem there is more than one format to put HD on a DVD

Vegas supports BD5/9 where Bluray file structure is put on a DVD disc

The other format is AVCHD this is not yet supported by vegas and freeware is needed to make AVCHD;s in vegas

Quite stunning really Panasonic and Sony both created the AVCHD format but Sony left it out of the vegas software, well nearly left it out Vegas burning from the timeline DOES have a AVCHD template but it only shows when the burn to CD is selected

My guess is the writers made a Boo Boo putting the template in te wrong section if the template for AVCHD showed in the burn bluray section vegas would make a AVCHD disc that would play in panasonic samsung and other brands that do not play BD5/9

Dave

MozartMan wrote on 7/7/2009, 2:22 PM

multiAVCHD works great for me when authoring AVCHD for DVD disk and Blu-ray for BD-RE disk. And it doesn't re-encode my precious HDV MPEG2 footage. My PS3 and JVC stand alone player play those disks with no problem.