business advice needed

masmedia wrote on 1/19/2008, 2:38 PM
Hi everyone,

I have an opportunity to shoot and edit a small(?) corporate project soon, and am looking to get advice and compare notes on billing.

I have hourly set rates determined. I think I really want to charge an hourly rate for scripting (if any), shooting and editing as I know how much longer projects can become than originally anticipated. Not so much from my end, but the client's. Recently, at my day job, we estimated a client $800, and they ended up with $2K in production! This was due to their many revisions and wasting shoot time. I also would like to give my corporate client some type of estimate in total costs, even though I want to charge hourly. I do not have much info about the project yet, but want to be prepared to write a proposal, as they are very interested in my services at this stage.

How do you all do this? What is your process? What do you put in your proposal? Do you charge hourly or flat rate per project? Do you get a retainer payment? How do you do an estimate if charging hourly?

I know I have much more info to get from them before writing a proposal, but I want to decide on a general process as I haven't done much corporate production on my own until now. (I'm a full time producer at a network affiliate tv station, and also have my own video company part time).

I'd appreciate your insights.

Thanks much,

Mark

p.s. my "determined" hourly rates are half of what the station charges for production services. Also wouldn't mind some feedback on that plan.

Comments

MH_Stevens wrote on 1/19/2008, 3:46 PM
You must tell client who wants revisions and extras that they must pay for it. All this stuff should be set out in a contract before you start. Not a big legal thing just an agreed list of what you will charge for and how and when they will pay.
John_Cline wrote on 1/19/2008, 4:00 PM
"my "determined" hourly rates are half of what the station charges for production services."

Don't sell yourself short. If your skills and equipment are similar to the station and you can provide an as good or better product, then there is no reason that you shouldn't be charging the same price. Perhaps you can cut them a minor deal just to get their business, but it is usually an uphill battle to increase your rates with that client in the future. Start high, it is much easier to negotiate down than up.

Once you have negotiated a price for a specific set of services, you must spell out what you will charge them additionally for revisions and general goofing off on their part.
Independence Films wrote on 1/22/2008, 2:14 PM
In our own outfit, I find the real issue is managing client expectations.
If they are expecting the sun, moon and stars as well as never-ending ongoing "fixes" for a laughably low rate- you've got troubles.

After doing a few projects, we found a condition I've dubbed "consistent underbidding". Usually the jobs came in 25-50% over what the client had originally been quoted; not because of dishonesty on our part, but because the client usually gets a broader idea of what's possible *after* the project starts. When they see the extras they can go for- they want 'em.

The client is not a vidographer or producer usually. They usually have little idea of what they're asking for in the initial discussions. So stuff gets left out, or just never comes up. The timelines are not realistic. If you're stuck with a package rate, you get hammered.

Estimate higher time requirements in your calculations of budget at every opportunity. How happy they'll be when you deliver something under budget!

Also- in every project, try to sweeten the deal in unexpected ways. (such as a bonus-features section, or a Lightscribe engraved disc etc.). How happy are they when the project is under budget and *cooler* than they were expecting?!

Lastly, be open and honest with your clients (that'll really shock 'em!). If the project is going beyond the parameters of the original discussion, discuss it with them openly and immediately.
This adds to the overall sense of value received, and keeps you from being destroyed by your own generosity. -it will also keep you from commiting yourself to an unreasonable cost-overage which the client may not wish to pay for.

OK, so it's more than 2-cents worth, but what the hell- it's a forum right? :)
richard-courtney wrote on 1/22/2008, 2:38 PM
I agree with John, don't sell yourself short. $2000 for a 30 second tv spot is not too
far out of line for shooting only. Inserting graphics, revising a boring script, setup,
keeping the shoot on schedule, etc all takes experience and time.

A spot, if well done, can be used for a couple of years and you want to produce
their next spot. Airtime is where the customer can negotiate primetime and useless
late evening (unemployed - quick money - program length fat butt burner) time slots.
(Depending on what your client is selling I may retract this statement)

Your local stations need output to Betacam, Digibeta, include that duplication cost.
As Stimulus stated you can "give them" a DVD but make sure you advertise on the
disk your company info. "PRODUCED BY MASMEDIA 800-NUMBER"