I have a list of camera accessories on my web page, ranging from must-have for almost anyone (tripod) to fairly exotic unless you do independent film (matte boxes). You can have a look at judge for yourself. The page is/was about the Sony TRV900 (no longer made) but is/was relevant to pretty much any video camera. http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/accessories.html

Since you're on the Vegas forum I assume you've got Vegas already (?) but if not you'll definitely want to budget for a NLE if you don't already use one. I used to use Premiere but since getting Vegas4 I haven't looked back!

One nice thing about Sony in general: their battery technology is superior to anything else I'm aware of. I own Sony, Canon and Panasonic cameras. The Sony batteries run twice as long, for a given size, as the others. With my VX2000 and the NP-960 battery I can run pretty much all day. I carry a backup on big jobs just out of caution, but I have never needed to use it. On a smaller camera that can take that size battery (the older D8 models) it would probably run 15 hours.

There's a lot to be said for small, inexpensive cameras in a hazardous environment. If you're making a DVD that you want to appear "professional", a camera at the level of the VX2000 (about $2300) makes a visible difference to me (note that MPEG encoding tends to exaggerate noise a little, so a clean input signal is that much more important). But everything's a tradeoff and there's certainly an opportunity cost to spending more of the budget on a better camera.

Thanks to everyone for the help. I think I am going to try and push for 2 smaller and less expensive cameras, and see about getting some of the other required equipment with the remainder. I will check out all the sites given in the above posts and put together a "shopping list".

I do indeed have V4 at home, and it looks like I will be editing at home. I tried to put the rest of the funds toward an editing station at work, but no dice. Not a problem, I can at least do the editing on my own time-frame. And I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions as the project progresses.

Thanks again for all the input.

chumash

CASE STUDY:
I've been a well known professional for over 30 years.
All of my clients are in the Fortune 500.
I just finished a job for Sears.
I had the following cameras for the shoot (all Sony - Sony forever, yeah).
PD-150
DCR-250
PD-1
VX-1000

The Job was a 15 minute recruiting video, to be shot in one week on board the "Navigator of the Seas", a giant cruise liner going through the western Caribbean, as prize to the top Sears salespeople. I was to document the fun, and encourage new salesfolk to try harder to win next year.

Crew: myself and 1 assistant - no room for anyone else. I generally like to shot with a 5 man crew on small jobs like this. But this one wasn't to be.
The camera plan was a serious condition, which it always is, whether it's a little "quickie" like this, or a "grand festival" with 50 or 60 people in crew, and a hundred in talent. You always worry about those cameras.
Here's the thinking that went into the choice. ]
The DCR-250 for "show" when I shoot the highest execs. PD-150 to carry the meat of the show. VX-1000 (which is old but study - rebuilt by Sony two times ($250-returned like new) - the VX-1000 would go onto the beach (sand loves cameras), near the water (hate when that humidity cruds up the heads, or anywhere else that you'd think twice about risking the "money" camera. A professional Always comes back With The Footage, (hence the camera you NEVER risk, no matter how much you love her). And the little camera the PD 1 to always have with me, to shoot everything, and to not count on too much, what with it's being 4 years old, single chip, etc. But some footage is always better than none - PD-1.
Well the day before the shoot I looked at all that gear (12 cases of absolutely necessary stuff), and I gave up the DCR-250 - yup, never made it to the ship. No way was I in shape to carry a 20 lb camera and legs (probably less I know, but they gain 5 pounds every 15 minutes, after the first hout) for 6 to 10 hours a day. And even the thought of dragging all that crap through the halls of a huge Cruiser turned my letgs to jelly.
The rest of the week went fabulously. Used the PD 150 for all the on board interviews and beauty shots, the VX1000 for the beach stuff, and the little PD1 for the weird instances of cruise life. Lit all the interiors with available light and two tiny Sima 3volt lights.

The big surprise was in the finished video where the PD1 easily intercut with everything else. I shot one day on the beach in Haiti, and the big "ice capade show" on the ship, with it. The exterior footage is indistinguishable from the bigger cameras, and the ice show looks great - way more than just "presentable".The fact is, you can't tell. I've released VHS prints and MPG2 disks. No doubt the bigger cameras deliver a (sometimes) "smoother" image, but the truth is You Can't Tell. The Digital 8 uses the same technology - DV. Coupled with a DV native editing enviornment (Vegas), it's just a system that's hard to beat without huge crews and bucks.

So that's the setup I'd suggest for you. A Sony Digi8 240 "cheapie" to start with for one or two of your first films. Then the PD 150 but only if you're doing a lot of interviews and such. Meanwhile you'd give the Digi8 to another member of the team and get two camera coverage on everything.
I hope no one objects to such a long article as this, but I think it might help a lot of aspiring videographers to know what the reality of professional production entails.
v.

Thanks for the insight. I've been learning a lot about the reality of videography, not just what the ads say. And I think I've been reading a lot of these posts on different forums and relating them to my level of interest, not realizing that most of them are pros. So I can't apply their needs to my particular situation. Like I said, a couple of less expensive cameras and some peripheral equipment are probably the ticket for my needs. At least for now, that will keep me plenty busy learning, as I make all the mistakes that facilitate the learning process.

chumash

here's my email address - feel free to write with any questions,hopes or fears...

vicmilt@bellsouth.net

www.interpubco.com

FYI Both the XL1 and the PD150 take the same tape, MiniDV. The only difference being that the PD150 will record in DVCAM onto MiniDV tape which doesn't achieve much apart from eating tape faster. The so called DVCAM tapes that SOny market in MiniDV format are just MiniDV tapes in a bigger box at a higher price.

Having gotten that out of the way, here in Australia its generally agreed that the XL1 takes better pics than the PD150 BUT you just cannot get good repairs done on the XL1s, working for a hire company that became a big issue so we ditched the XL1s.

For someone in a fire dept I'd go with the PD150, its a more robust camera and the slightly better images from the XL1 you'll never notice.

"The so called DVCAM tapes that SOny market in MiniDV format are just MiniDV tapes in a bigger box at a higher price."
That is not true. The DVCAM 40s and full size in the fancy blue cases are triple layer and last much longer than the Sony "Premium" and "Excellence" grades. DVCAM tape is much more reliable than the consumer grade when used in temperature extremes, such as -40 C or + 40 C with high humidity. It is true that any miniDV cassette is compatible with both the prosumer Canon XL1 and the Broadcast DSR 570 BUT Sony recommends owners of DVCAM series camcorders use DVCAM brand tape.

A final comment on XL1 vs PD150 etc. There were dozens of shooters using many makes and models of camcorders at the 2002 Arctic Winter Games in Nuuk, Greenland. One (1) shooter had an XL1. Everyone else used PD150/VX1000s, DXC D30 & D35 with DSR1/BVV5/DNV5 on the back or DSR 500/300s. I guess many other organizations have had the same service/repair/reliability problems as us and opted out of the Canon line. The only thing my personal one is ever used for these days is as a third camera with the switcher, all it is good for, really.

If you've seen or heard of the 911 DVD which was of a fire department's documentry and their experiece with the sep 11 attack- that footage was made with a PD150 and an anamorphic lens. just thought that could be some extra incentive to buy that particular model - which of course i highly recommend. one good test is to punch the camera, i bet the pd150 hurts more!

I would consider some kind of protective housing or rain coat for the camera since you are going to use it in that environment. Those are generally expensive and the only alternative I can think of is a regular plastic bag. But when it comes to heat exposure that might not be a wise idea.
Best/Tommy
www.stormstereo.com

Which is another reason why I suggested a cheaper camera. You can put them in your pocket too... for some protection form the elements you're taping in. Fireman's turnout coats have BIG pockets... right?

I bought 2 XL1S' from this woman ( http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ht=1&query=xl1s+sealed )on ebay; one for $2500 and the other recently for $2600 (plus $40 shipping). She pre-orders them from J&R and it takes about a month to get them but it's well worth the wait.
FWIW, I bought a Sony PD150 just prior to the 1st XL1S and I'm about to sell it on Ebay and take a loss; not that there's any thing wrong with the PD150, I just personally prefer the XL1S.
Randy

The pixelation that you speak of in low light is the nut behind the PD-150's viewfinder. (just a pun) The PD-150 allows extreme low light for an ENG camera. The problem is the default set-up. It allows the camera to up the gain way too early. If you will create a custom preset set-up for the camera and limit the gain to -6db or 0db then you will be able to go amazingly low light without the grain problem. That includes when you are using auto exposure control, although that is not a good way to shoot. When you REALLY have to go into the darkness and the quality can be degraded, such as battle footage, you can release he gain floor and let it drop to -12 or -18db and still get better footage than the next guy.

K

Firefighter's pockets are not as big as you think, BillyBoy. And how would I record anything from inside a turnout pocket? But point well taken about the smaller cemera.

chumash

Thanks. I will look into some protection for the camera. I don't foresee getting too far into a burn. Like one of the posts suggested earlier, I won't wear gloves. When my hands get warm, I figure the camera has had enough too. I think the humidity will probably be more of a concern than the actual heat, from talking to a cameraman from the local news. I'll let you know how it turns out.

And as far as punching the camera, I don't think that's a good idea either. The training chief is a feisty old-timer, and would have my butt for that. I don't want to get him going:)

chumash

Here's why I went for the XL1 instead of the Sony a couple of years back. I'd read a review of the PD150 only to learn that it's frames/movie/progressive scan mode only ran at 12fps! (PAL of course). Since emulating that film look is important to me, only being to use that mode at 12fps would have been a joke. Especially when my previous camera, a Panasonic DX100 had a 25fps frames mode.

And also, a couple of guys I knew on the net shot their film (http://www.crewoftwo.com) using XL1 and GL1 cameras. And it looked great, even though it was all bluescreen. Apart from the focus, which isn't a problem since I always have it set to manual, the XL1 still produces some beautiful looking images. It's brilliant for low light or night time shots aswell. With the newer lens, I'd imagine the XL1s would be even better.