Camera to Resolve, and Resolve to Vegas

astar wrote on 8/31/2015, 9:38 PM
The new releases of Resolve seem to support HDCAM.mxf as an intermediate format on par with Prores and DnxHD. However when moving the .mxf files into a Vegas project, my VP13-B453 crashes importing the file. Catalyst Browse and Prepare both play the Resolve exported file with out errors. Media info on the same media exported from resolve, and again from Vegas to HDCAM shows a writing library version mismatch. Resolve and catalyst apparently using newer versions.

Vegas VP13:Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.0.0.74.1

Resolve: Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.7.0.107.1

Looks like Vegas is the poor cousin, that is no longer getting updates to even software that Sony is writing. Funny.

Comments

set wrote on 8/31/2015, 10:44 PM
Which setting do you use? Perhaps I can try testing on my system.

I use this following Render setting in Resolve12 and works nicely:
My Video format is MXF OP1A
Codec: XDCAM MPEG2
Field Rendering checked on (because I still work with interlace format)

The result is 50Mbps XDCAM HD422 as read with Mediainfo, with lowerfield interlace format.

The other video format, 'MXF OP-Atom' makes the video unreadable.


Set
astar wrote on 9/1/2015, 12:20 AM
Yep. You were right, I was using Resolve 11, and updated to Resolve 12 and the files XDCAM files load into Vegas fine. HDCAM is still different in media info, but apparently it was a Black Magic issue with there format in 11. The HDCAM formats work great too.

HDCAM from Vegas
Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 109 MiB
Duration : 5s 0ms
Overall bit rate : 183 Mbps
Encoded date : 2015-07-16 01:43:10.000
Writing application : Sony HDCAM-SR Vegas Plugin 0.1.0.0.4
Writing library : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.0.0.74.1

HDCAM Resolve 11:
Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 409 MiB
Duration : 15s 148ms
Overall bit rate : 227 Mbps
Encoded date : 2015-08-31 20:29:02.000
Writing application : Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 11.3.1.0.3
Writing library : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.7.0.107.1

HDCAM Resolve 12:
Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 288 MiB
Duration : 10s 611ms
Overall bit rate : 227 Mbps
Encoded date : 2015-09-01 05:07:05.000
Writing application : Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 12.0.0.0.3
Writing library : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.7.0.107.1

Same writing library but they must not have been writing the structure correctly or something. It is still strange that the Catalyst apps worked fine with the resolve 11 file, but not vegas. hmm. oh well



set wrote on 9/1/2015, 2:46 AM
Here's comparison from my output (only general and Video stream info only):

XDCAM MPEG2


General

Complete name                            : ...\Final MXF\02 Gereja.mxf

Format                                   : MXF

Commercial name                          : XDCAM HD422

Format version                           : 1.2

Format profile                           : OP-1a

Format settings                          : Closed / Complete

File size                                : 16.9 GiB

Duration                                 : 46mn 53s

Overall bit rate                         : 51.6 Mbps

Encoded date                             : 2015-08-31 15:52:21.720

Writing application                      : Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 12.0b



Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : MPEG Video

Commercial name                          : XDCAM HD422

Format version                           : Version 2

Format profile                           : 4:2:2@High

Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes

Format settings, Matrix                  : Default

Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12

Format settings, picture structure       : Frame

Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame

Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102046001-0401020201040300

Duration                                 : 46mn 53s

Bit rate                                 : 50.0 Mbps

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 540 pixels

Original height                          : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Active Format Description                : Letterbox 16:9 image, with alternative 4:3 center

Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Interlaced

Scan order                               : Bottom Field First

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 1.929

Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:00:00

Time code source                         : Group of pictures header

GOP, Open/Closed                         : Open

Stream size                              : 16.4 GiB (97%)

Title                                    : 02 Gereja_v1

--cut--


and the following is test render using Sony MPEG4 444 450 Mbps codec:
(Forgot to turn on the Field Render)


General

Complete name                            : ...\Final MXF\Test SonyMPEG4 444 450Mbps.mxf

Format                                   : MXF

Format version                           : 1.3

Format profile                           : OP-1a

Format settings                          : Closed / Complete

File size                                : 1.32 GiB

Duration                                 : 30s 160ms

Overall bit rate                         : 375 Mbps

Encoded date                             : 2015-09-01 07:36:34.000

Writing application                      : Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 12.0.0.0.3

Writing library                          : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.7.0.107.1



Video

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : MPEG-4 Visual

Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame

Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102046001-0401020201201002

Duration                                 : 30s 160ms

Bit rate                                 : 375 Mbps

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps

Color space                              : RGB

Scan type                                : Progressive

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 7.238

Stream size                              : 1.32 GiB (100%)

Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709

--cut--



And this is a Sony Vegas rendering to prepare my clips to go into Resolve (Trying make full edit using Resolve12b3) :
(My Vegas' writing library is detected different version than yours...)


General

Complete name                            : ...\X70 1\x70_09061443.mxf

Format                                   : MXF

Commercial name                          : XDCAM HD 35

Format version                           : 1.3

Format profile                           : OP-1a

Format settings                          : Closed / Complete

File size                                : 49.1 MiB

Duration                                 : 14s 560ms

Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Overall bit rate                         : 28.3 Mbps

Encoded date                             : 2015-08-21 16:29:15.000

Writing application                      : SONY Vegas 13.0.0.453

Writing library                          : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.0.0.5000.1



Video

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : MPEG Video

Commercial name                          : XDCAM HD 35

Format version                           : Version 2

Format profile                           : Main@High

Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes

Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom

Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12

Format settings, picture structure       : Frame

Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame

Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102046001-0401020201030300

Duration                                 : 14s 560ms

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 35.0 Mbps

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps

Standard                                 : Component

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Interlaced

Scan order                               : Top Field First

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.675

Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:00:00

Time code source                         : Group of pictures header

GOP, Open/Closed                         : Open

GOP, Open/Closed of first frame          : Closed

Stream size                              : 60.7 MiB

Color primaries                          : BT.709

Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709

Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

--cut--


astar wrote on 9/1/2015, 6:30 AM
The difference you are seeing is the XDCAM vs HDCAM.

If you do a lot of XDCAM work, you might try the Sony MPEG4 422 (255Mbs) setting. HDCAM edits smoother and with more layers in Vegas, even though it has a higher bitrate. Assuming your rig has good GPU acceleration, like an AMD card. I know storage is a major concern, but I prefer performance over storage.
set wrote on 9/1/2015, 7:52 AM
Thanks for the tips Astar.
Will try later on shorter project. Need time to mastering Resolve's Color grade Noding.

I'm 'trouble finding' the HDCAM format in Deliver tab, so I decide to test render from Vegas, and I have the following:



General

Complete name                            : D:\Test\Sony HDCAM SR 444 rendertest.mxf

Format                                   : MXF

Format version                           : 1.3

Format profile                           : OP-1a

Format settings                          : Closed / Complete

File size                                : 450 MiB

Duration                                 : 10s 0ms

Overall bit rate                         : 378 Mbps

Encoded date                             : 2015-09-01 12:42:29.000

Writing application                      : Sony HDCAM-SR Vegas Plugin 0.1.0.0.4

Writing library                          : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.0.0.74.1



Video

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : MPEG-4 Visual

Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame

Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102046001-0401020201201002

Duration                                 : 10s 0ms

Bit rate                                 : 375 Mbps

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps

Color space                              : RGB

Scan type                                : Interlaced

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 7.241

Stream size                              : 447 MiB (99%)

Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709


Am I right to say 'Sony MPEG4 444 (450Mbit)' is the HDCAM format?
If so, then I have no issue on putting the Sony MPEG4 444 450Mbps MXF file here.

Set
astar wrote on 9/1/2015, 2:49 PM
Resolve profile "Sony MPEG4 444 (450Mbs)" = Vegas HDCAM SR 444 is very high bitrate MPEG-4 intra in an RGB format that can use up to 800Mbs depending on framerate and content. The video format does not seem to be as optimized as SR or SR-Lite in Vegas

Resolve profile "Sony MPEG4 422 (450Mbs)" = Vegas HDCAM SR is MPEG-4 intra in an YUV 10-bit 422 format that can use up to 440Mbs depending on framerate and content. There have been white papers on this format being the Sony's ProRes HQ equivalent.

Resolve profile "Sony MPEG4 422 (255Mbs)" = Vegas HDCAM SR-Lite is MPEG-4 intra in an YUV 10-bit 422 format that can use up to 220Mbs depending on framerate and content. If you are ok with XDCAM422 quality, I would try this level instead of the higher bit rates for storage reasons.

Just by scrubbing back and forth on a clip with the mouse, you can tell how much smoother this format is over MP4, DNxHD, XACV, and XDCAM. The smoothness over xdcam is likely due to the intra frame codec. XDCAM is highly optimized in Vegas as well.