Can't burn without enabling buffer underrun protec

fretman wrote on 12/7/2008, 3:02 PM
I'm unable to burn without enabling buffer underrun protection. Wth it disabled, the lead in burns, then abrubtly stops with a message about the media being dirty, etc...

I'd like to burn without the buffer underrun ticked, as my understanding is that discs made with it may be unacceptable premasters for duplication plants.

I'v e tried at different speeds, pre-rendering to an image (WAV) file, all with same results.

I'm using CDA 5.2d (build 240) with Windows XP Pro, burner reported as an Optiarc DVD RW AD-5540A

Just sent this same message to tech support, but thought I might get faster help here! Cheers!

Comments

Geoff_Wood wrote on 12/10/2008, 5:32 PM
Probably a factor of your drive/firmware. Buffer Underrun Protection is just fine if it is not actually USED as a result of your CPU or HDD/CD-R data-stream running out of steam during the burn.

So tick the 'pre-render' if you are running many or heavy plugins.


geoff
fretman wrote on 12/10/2008, 6:56 PM
Thanks - is there any way to know if b.u.p. was actually used or not? It's a modern system, fast drives, fast cpu, etc... - if pre-rendering is ticked, is it safe to assume that b.u.p. won't kick in?!
Geoff_Wood wrote on 12/11/2008, 7:27 PM
Just watch the buffer bargraph. It's not the same buffer, but if running down gives an idea that the drive's buffer may also be emptying.

g.
FredT wrote on 12/15/2008, 8:10 AM
We experience exactly the same problem with CDA. The problem is CDA handling the drive, the error regarding dirty media is invalid. All drives failing in CDA write perfectly fine audio-premasters with other writing-programs.

Currently, we're in touch with Sony Support regarding this issue. No suggestions besides enabling buffer underrun protection so far from their side.

Good premasters should be written without any form of buffer underrun protection (BUP). We produce premasters on a daily basis, so thicking the box and praying it is not used is not an option for us.

It has taken us a lot of time and effort to pin down the problem. We tried writing a particular project systematically to different drives, at different speeds, with different computers. More than 40 test-writes were done.

Our findings until now:
- Sony/NEC/OptiArc AD-5170A, fw 1.13: errors without BUP, writes fine with BUP enabled
- Sony/NEC/OptiArc AD-5170A, fw 1.14: errors without BUP, writes fine with BUP enabled
- Pioneer DVR-111, fw 1.06: everything perfectly fine WITHOUT BUP!

So, we use the Pioneer DVR-111 for now since it is the only drive working properly without BUP enabled. Still, it is a very weird problem without a clear error message. Sony should solve this we think.

Please keep working with tech support, we will too. Maybe this will help them solve the problem for other users.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 12/15/2008, 1:24 PM
Have you determined that just enabling BUP has a detrimental effect, even if it is not actually *used* during the burn ?

geoff
FredT wrote on 12/18/2008, 7:02 AM
No, we did not verify if enabling it has any bad effects.

We *NEVER* write with any form of buffer protection enabled since we want to be sure that a master is written in one single pass. A professional Red Book mastering application should also be able to burn in a reliable way without any buffer protection enabled.

We produce premasters on a daily basis and do not have the time to sit and watch some buffer graph. This is complete nonsense, it should just work.

And we don't think it is a solution to the problem, just a workaround. There is clearly something wrong with the code behind CDA which handles writing. This should be analysed and fixed by Sony. Other applications work perfectly fine with the problem-drives without BUP, so why couldn't professional CDA do this?

Best regards,
Fred
Geoff_Wood wrote on 12/18/2008, 3:05 PM
There is no application that uses no buffer ( a buffer is 'protection', as well as essential component) which is why all but the most basic apps will have a bar-graph . It is there for a reason.

Of course BUP is something different again, and yes if it's function is actually invoked, is to be avoided for a production master. Merely selecting it does not make it be used.

If BUP makes a difference, then that indicates that something is not up to speed in your system, or you are not pre-rendering in circumstances where you should ( ie serial plugins on events, or cpu-heavy plugins anywhere).

I can burn absolutely succesfully every time WITHOUT buffer-underrun protection turned on. If you burn is failing because BUP protection is off, then some part of your system is not keeping up with the data flow - address that - don't just spit the dummy at your CDA. You don't have to sit there watching you buffer graph each burn - but you do need to have some idea of the capabilities of your setup .

I assume you have detemined the optimal burn speed for your system/burner/media and use that rather than 'Maximum' ? I have found 8x to be best with my choice of media and PlexWriter drives.

If you are pre-rendering, then it isn't the processing that is causing ithe bottleneck - look for other processes, steady or intermittant, that could be causing your problem. AV and network indexing are some common causes of cpu peaks or bus traffic that can bomb a burn, especially at higher burn speeds.

I can also compare (with Plextools) burn done with BUP turned on and on and see NO DIFFERENCE. If I force BUP to kick in, usually I see correctable errors - OK for amateur or non-critical use, but certainly not suitable for a production master.

I have been authoring CDs and duplicating with up to 14 concurrent drives (PC-based) for up to 10 years, as well as submitting for replication) , so do have a few clues.

geoff