You cannot render AVCHD camera-compliant files that will be read on the Vegas timeline in Vegas.

NO.

I am not talking about transcoding. The transcoding has already been done. Let me say it yet again. I have no problem with vegas transcoding from m2t over to avchd. At the end is what is supposed to be a avchd file. It makes no difference where it came from. For all intents and purposes it SHOULD be a avchd file like any other (Sony avchd file since it came from Vegas) and that avchd file in fact works fine in the PS3.
Vegas SHOULD be able to INGEST that file and it does not... or rather I should say it does but with a high failure rate.

And in sticking with the OP issue... mine is the same... when I try to import that freshly made avchd file, the audio comes into the timeline but the video does not. This is also true with others.

These files work just fine in the other mentioned programs

Several people have asked for clips that can be downloaded. I think that if various people who have contributed to this thread would like to help move this along, they would serve us all well by posting a few seconds of things that work (or don't) so that we can get to the bottom of what Vegas actually can and cannot do.

To that end, I did a little research and found this page:

Test clips from Panasonic HDC-SD5

Many of the files are transcoded, so not particularly useful to this discussion, but there are links to several "native" files. However, I only have Vegas 7.0d and was not able to get it to recognize any of these. Perhaps, as Spot has pointed out, the Panasonic flavor of AVCHD is not one that Vegas can deal with. Since I don't have an AVCHD camcorder, I have only glanced at past threads on this subject, but it seems to me that many of them discussed the fact that AVCHD support is not uniform -- something about which Spot has provided very specific information in this thread. I applaud Spot's excellent information about both his success, and lack of success, with the various camcorders he has been able to test. I find that very useful.

Thankyou John.
I will gladly download those clips and give it a go.

But my point is that there is a problem here and the EXACT extent of the problem is common to quite a few people now (while importing ...or I should say... when dragging to the timeline... audio shows up but video doesn't). Common enough so that it should be able to be recognized by now as more than just "operator error" or "machine conflict". In fact I have gone to great lengths with different machines and operating environments to rule these things out.

LSHorwits is having this problem when trying to import from his cam. I'm getting the EXACT same problem when trying to import a avchd file generated by Vegas. I know for a FACT that my clips are good because I have no problems with them in the PS3, with Pinnacle studio, and with Ulead. The problem IS with Vegas. It is not properly recognizing the file.

I downloaded the file: Panasonic_HDC-SD5_Test1_1024×576-50p.mp4
from that site of yours John. Not QUITE the same thing since it's an mp4 but none the less I imported and rendered over to M2TS, AC3 5.1 sound (the original video has no audio though). It worked fine. I also imported the generated avchd file and it worked fine too. (also tested it in Pinnacle and Ulead... worked fine as expected)

So I go back to my original statement.... there is nothing wrong with my machine (or its operator). Vegas is simply being VERY picky about what it will accept (as noted by 4EYES in my above link).... and that includes its very own generated files which will fail to re-import about 50% of the time.

Hi

Does anyone have some Canon AVCHD clips that I could test on?

T.i.a.

/Ulf

If you give me a place to upload to then I will gladly send you 2 clips. BOTH clips are no problem for the PS3, Pinnacle and ulead... but only one clip will be accepted by Vegas.

My hosting company doesn't allow larger file sizes than 40M to be uploaded, and I am assuming your non-working mp4 is bigger than that, but that is of course why bittorrent was invented. Can you share using bittorrent?

Try these, Ulf:
http://dvinfo.net/media/canon/austin1.mts (100MB)
http://dvinfo.net/media/canon/frogmacroeasy.m2ts (65 MB)
http://dvinfo.net/media/canon/frogmacropae.m2ts (43 MB)

Thanks a lot Spot - I'll try theese. :-)

/Ulf

I downloaded those files, Spot, but Vegas 7.0d doesn't recognize them. I thought V7.0d could handle AVCHD, but I guess it can't.

However, I just went back and looked at the V7 release notes, and V7.0 added:

High-quality H.264 AVC/AAC import and export (including HD support). Includes templates for Sony PSP® and Apple iPod® (originally released with Vegas 6.0d).

but it wasn't until 7.0e (which I never installed due to its various problems) that we got:

Added support for editing files recorded with Sony AVCHD camcorders.

I am not sure what the difference between importing AVC "including HD support" and supporting files recorded with Sony AVCHD camcorders is, but I suspect that somewhere in that very convoluted and confusing set of specs lies the answer as to why I cannot put the files I downloaded onto the Vegas timeline.

I downloaded too and Vegas 8 sees them fine and they edit fine too. The only problem I have (on my 3 GHz / 2 GB RAM test pc) is framerate low on playback.

Maybe my projectsettings is wrong?

I have trried both HD 60i and HDV 60i - both go very slow playback, but edit etc. is fine.

/Ulf

When all else fails, you can always convert the AVCHD files to Cineform. Unfortunately, I don't have an HF-10 (I almost bought one) but I don't see why those specific AVCHD files would give Vegas a cramp. I can open/edit AVCHD files with Vegas Pro 8b, but the previews are pretty slow (more slow than pretty, unfortunately). I don't think Vegas is THERE yet with AVCHD, but maybe I need a new computer.

As to blink's problem, I would also try to hunt down a codec conflict using GSpot and GraphEdit. That's probably not what's causing the problem, but with Vegas, it always seems like that's the first step in troubleshooting file I/O problems.

"a codec pack problem"

Spot, help me understand. In order tho edit AVCHD you require the right codec or codec pack?
Does this come with each version vof V8 pro, or does one need to install these seperately when getting ready to edit this type of file?


Ted

It is NOT a codec pack problem.

If I had a conflicting codec problem then it would stand to reason that I would not be able to import ANYTHING in terms of m2ts... and this is not the case.

I just downloaded Spot's Frogmacroeasy.m2ts and it imported fine and dragged to the timeline with both the audio and video showing.

Spot.... look.... and please... I don't say this in any kind of nasty tone or with any malcontent whatsoever..... I can fully understand your position if it was just one person complaining about M2TS's losing their video as they are dragged to the timeline. And if you are not seeing this problem then I suggest to you that your testing is being done on much too narrow a path and you need to widen it. The intent of a testing regime is to GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to find problems. You are not doing Vegas, or Sony any justice in denying, or making excuses for an issue that is now reproducible by multiple people in multiple operating environments, with multiple avchd file sources

I like my Vegas too.... probably just as much as you do. But Vegas only gets better when criticism gets leveled in areas where criticism is due.... and compared to 2 much cheaper consumer level programs, Vegas's avchd editing just does not stand up.

LShorwits started this thread with a problem that quite a few of us are having. You are in a GREAT position to find out why Vegas is doing what it is... I'm asking you... Take a sample of his clip and see what you can come up with.

If I had a conflicting codec problem then it would stand to reason that I would not be able to import ANYTHING in terms of m2ts... and this is not the case.

Actually it wouldn't, but that is not terribly relevant, but... M2T is just a container as you know, so how Vegas fares when opening such a container will depend entirely on the codec situation on any give machine. If, for example, you can not open it and I can, it is extremely likely that the difference is in our codec configuration. But onto other matters...

Vegas only gets better when criticism gets leveled in areas where criticism is due.... and compared to 2 much cheaper consumer level programs, Vegas's avchd editing just does not stand up.

Or, sadly, these days, in some areas it doesn't even measure up. To a degree I agree with your criticism here, SCS has been criminally behind the curve when it comes to support for online formats and HD formats. This includes flash, H.264 and Blu-Ray (and before that HD DVD). I am still dumbfounded that I have to go to Ulead to create a Blu-Ray disk, and even more dumbfounded when it turns out that the Ulead software has very nice features that "Pro" Vegas can't touch, such as automatic creation of transitions between menus etc..

Now some would argue that I can do everything in DVD-A (except for Blu-Ray of course) that I can do in the Ulead toy, and this is true, but it is significantly harder to do it in DVD-A. Of course I can do stuff in DVD-A that is not possible with Ulead, but still.

Someone once said that a good tool makes the difficult easy and the impossible possible. I don't think the SCS engineers live by that slogan these days, and as I have said before, it worries me a little. I saw the same trend with Ulead a few years back when they still had "pro" products, and I am a little concerned that when moving from Ulead I made the wrong choice between Premiere and Vegas.

I am an optimist though, and I am assuming that NAB will allay my fears or that well before Christmas season is upon us I will have Blu-Ray authoring from Sony in my hands. If not, Daddy is getting the Premiere suite for Christmas and Sony will not get any more update $$s from me.

Take a sample of his clip and see what you can come up with.

Any way to share? I would like to test.

Well... like I said... if you can figure out a way for me to get it to you then I will send it. The shortest one I have is about 450M and I would rather not shorten it. dspenc1 made a claim that he thought it had something to do with size and he may have something. I do not want to use Bittorrent since it may alter the file (for better or worse) somewhat, and render it a useless test strip.

Maybe LSHorwitz has a shorter one?

CorTed,
Weve stumbled across several instances where users have installed "Codec packs" from places like freecodecs.com etc, and that install has blown up their ability to handle certain types of file formats in Vegas, because their codecs have become corrupted.
Vegas Pro8 comes with whatever you need to read *most* AVCHD camcorder files, although there are a few, like those from DXS that don't read properly in Vegas, because they're not outputting format compliant files in order to avoid certain royalties, even though they're packaging in the MTS package.
There are several .avi extension files Vegas won't open either, simply because like .avi, .mts can contain other things.

Blink, Spot is probably "more" correct than wrong about the codec packs. I have encounter bad "header" data a number of times in AVI, mv,....etc.... Sometimes during installation a rare memory bit failure can corrupt the final code data or during DL's a rare bit error that slips by crc checks. There are a few "other" system issues that can damage a object file during execution. But also, hackers have figure out how to use the wrapper jumping to a unique app(codec) to run code. Then there is the simple case of a poorly written codec program in the codec pack or a poor firmware codec in the camera.

Here's an analogy. You may remember recently John Cline posting that Vegas couldn't read BMD Intensity files properly. Now, these BMD files are just good old MJPEG, so you would think that the built-in Vegas MJPEG codec would decode those nicely, since it reads almost every kind of MJPEG file without a hitch. Well it didn't. After some good hints by the author of VirtuallDub, Avery Lee, John concluded that there was a minor flaw in the BMD Intensity MJPEG files. Sure enough, BMD issued an update to the Intensity driver package and now Vegas reads the files fine. And it never was a Vegas problem.

And as was pointed out, the codec used to originally create a file may not work the way that every codec that decodes the file expects it to behave. Further, you may have duplicate codecs on your computer and some of them may not work as well as others. Without looking at the DS Filter merits and using either GSpot or GraphEdit to see exactly how a file gets rendered, you may never know what's going on.

if you can figure out a way for me to get it to you then I will send it.

Bittorrent. The easiest way, since you don't need a server to share, would be Azureus Vuze. You can share files of any size with anyone. It's the best tool out there for any of this kind of stuff, and I am surprised that it hasn't caught on with the video community more than it actually has.

"Blink, Spot is probably "more" correct than wrong about the codec packs."

". Further, you may have duplicate codecs on your computer and some of them may not work as well as others."

NO NO NO NO. You're not reading.

I thought Spot may have been onto something too when he suggested a codec problem. AS I said in an above post, I loaded a new copy of xp onto 2 different machines as well as Vegas. NOTHING else was installed..... same results.

Regardless, I've grown quite tired of this entire topic. I have suggested a DIRECT problem with Vegas and avchd and =those who choose to disbelieve..... fine.... what ever.

The FACT remains that there are 2 much cheaper, off-the-shelf, consumer level programs that handle avchd in a much more dependable manor than Vegas.

Pinnacle and Ulead can import just about any m2ts with no problems. As noted by SEVERAL people now, Vegas can't
Pinnacle and Ulead can output avchd at 17M, Vegas can't
Pinnacle and Ulead can produce a disk that automatically starts when placed in the PS3, Vegas can't.
Ulead can loop that disk with a simple checkmark in a box. Vegas can't
Ulead can produce menus. Vegas can't
Ulead can even insert chapters WITHOUT menus. Vegas can't
Pinnacle, with its hardware acceleration and timeline background rendering, can produce a rock solid frame rate on timeline playback, even with transitions. Vegas struggles even in preview mode (and that's with a Q6600 and 8 gig ram)

This list can go on but the point is that Vegas is now where Ulead was almost a year ago with avchd production. This is a hard pill to swallow when you consider the fact that Sony is in part responsible for putting avchd on the map in the first place.

Here's my last words on the topic:
Shame on Sony.

Thanks to all for the numerous insights and assistance. I am now curious to know whether Pinnacle can do what Ulead and Nero succesfully do with AVCHD, namely, import an AVCHD .mts file, edit it on a timeline, and then create a menued, chaptered DVD-R which plays on a PS3.

Both MovieFactory6Plus and Nero Vision (8 Ultimate) actually make very nice AVCHD menued, chaptered disks with Nero doing much cooler menu animations. I'm just wondering if Pinnacle can do the same?

Thanks for any feedback.

Larry

"Here's my last words on the topic:" Blink, my Americo must be spiked! ;-) OK, a more carefully look at these other apps seems to suggest that sony's handing off to wrapper itself maybe the source of the problem. If so, its a simple linkage issue and quickly resolvable
.
"Shame on Sony." maybe more like " Jump on this, Sony!"