"Threads like this are an invitation for those responsible for these flare-ups to:
A) Point fingers as if they are not involved.
B) Talk about the source of contention (which, if you haven't noticed, is generally the source of contention).
C) Respond to either of the above with the exact behaviors that we are doing our best to avoid."

My only goal is to be as perfect as those above having this discussion, that way I can overlook my own behavior and just point the finger at other members as the source of a disturbance. Because then obviously I can do no wrong....I'm never wrong....it must be the other guy....Yes, when my ego grows that big where I finally reach the point where I can do/say no wrong, please remove my name from these forums, because obviously I have stopped thinking clearly, and anything I say would only be clouded misguided information. It's a shame, many of us here live in a country, founded on the freedom of speach, where our ancestors fought and gave their lives on that principle because they where opressed for their disagreeing viewpoints that they wanted to express and not be slogged and beheaded by a dictactor/king. The dictatorship groups where you can only think and express your opinion that agrees with that dictatorship will continue to grow and be flurious. Thankfully, we have a judicial system in place once that group grows large enough to try and enforce their dictatorship opionions on how they interpret the way things should be. The judicial system has proven to them time and time again, they are wrong no matter how much they are convinced in their own minds that they are right, along with all their followers who agree with them. Rally your troops together, convince them this is the proper way to conduct yourself, you have the right to do so, just like the rest of us have the right to disagree with you. Once we can learn to agree to disagree, and in our discussions of disagreement we can support our opinions with backing facts other than that's how a particular group does things so it must therefore be fact. Then and only then will we have a forum which both gets along and is able to learn from one another from their disagreeing viewpoints. Like all things, it's a two way street, if you truly think you can drive down your one way street, while people traveling the opposite direction don't have a road to travel on and eventually get upset with standing still, then don't be too surprised when they did get upset.

JamesD - my sentitments exactly! SAVE THE FORUM (if indeed it is in danger) and JUST DON'T RESPOND to known troublemakers. If you do, you are JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME! Can you not see this....?

lili

Those actually causing the disturbance or greatly contributing to threads like these going on and on rarely see themselves as part of the problem. Even after the moderator tells them THEY are the problem. For those that still don't get it, please carefully read SonyChaboud's reasons A and B again.

I guess my point is, problems are usually problems because of the response they get. Don't respond and the problem usually goes away on it's own.

Kelly, I couldn't agree with you more!

Besides, the vast major of blow hards who threaten law suits are just that, blow hards. Filing and pursuing a law suit is not a cheap proposition! Few such tempermental individuals have a bank account that cash the check their mouth has written.

Billy,

I'm astonished that you have never been able to see that YOU are also a big part of the problem we're discussing. You have continually labored under the dangerous delusion that you are "squeaky clean" and that when the moderators are speaking that it only applies to someone else and never you. Unbelieveble!

You are like a stuck record about this whole "professional" issue, you bring it up in virtually every thread you post in, whether it has anything to do with the thread or not. I noticed you just hijacked another thread not ten minutes ago harping on this professional stuff.

I think what it's going to take is for Sony to ban BOTH of us permanently from the forum. I am willing to do whatever it takes to shut you up so the rest of the forum can discuss Vegas in some measure of peace and tranquility.

John

Since you've typed in wrong twice Jay, just a heads up to say blowhard is a single word, meaning a braggard. Thank God, nobody like that in this forum. <wink>

John, I have no idea what BillyBoy is saying, since he's on my Ignore This User list, but he certainly isn't worth ruining your own standing here.

The idea that you are willing to throw yourself on this grenade is truly admirable, but, again, it's not worth it. Not this one!

"Live to fight another day."

John Cline,

Sorry to say this. YOU are partly to blame for this never ending bickering. I wish you could just refrain from responding to offenders. Spot has wisely done so. For the sake of others who value this forum, I hope those involved in one way or other will "stop fanning the fire".Thanks.

Spot comments, if I understand him correctly, that Sony has not put resources into having an active moderator, and also that Sony is reluctant to start censoring content due to certain restrictions corporations have to consider.

I didn't know that, and therefore I'll stop referring to the Sony rules for forum members. I don't criticize Sony for this, I just acknowledge that the company has balanced considerations and made a policy decision. I certainly don't favor shutting down all content, or all video links because it's less expensive to do so.

Though some of the people who read my posts (vitalforce at home, editor3333 at the office) may think I'm an old fuddy-duddy, this is not so. I am passionate about my politics, and about legal questions regarding church and state, but I am even more passionate about the necessity of keeping the Internet as free and open as humanly possible. This is a time in modern history when there are people who would very much like to lock down the Internet and prevent free discussion.

So I'll lay off in the future, with the objections about evangelism on a tech forum. There are worse things.
.

jamesD,

If you'll re-read my post above, I said Billy was a large PART of the problem, not the exclusive cause of the problem.

I don't know how much you have followed Billy's posts and our "bickering" but it is well documented in the forum's archived posts that I have never preemptively attacked BillyBoy, but I have reserved the right to defend myself when I have been the target of one of Billy's special brand of personal attacks. It's all there in black & white if you want to waste your time researching it. I have always gotten along quite well with everyone here, except for Billy.

If you had been the target of Billy's venom as I have for the last few years, trust me, you would feel very differently. I want this to stop every bit as much, or more, than you do. I just want to talk shop with my friends.

Like I said earlier, I think Sony should permanently ban both of us. I'm sure the forum would be better off without Billy and if I have to go in order to rid the forum of him, then so be it.

John

Just curious John...

Why not use the Ignore feature? You won't feel like you have to defend youself and, you'll be able to talk shop with friends.
Most of us can tell what constitutes a cheap shot or an unfounded comment.

Mario

Mario,

At this point, I am inclined to use the "Ignore this Forum" button instead. Coming here has been less and less fun for me over the last year or so because it makes me so incredibly angry to be reading a thread and then stumble across a post from Billy taking pot-shots at myself or Spot for no good reason.

John

I've lost count how many times Cline has called me scum in this forum and other vile things. Twice, three, five times? Would anyone else here put up with that? No, of course you wouldn't. Cline loves to sit in judgement and according to him he reserves the right to judge me, anyone, and call them scum or anything else he feels like, because in his estimation he can. Odd, nobody here except one other person called Cline on his total out of control conduct. Interesting.

You know what I really fine funny? Several people saying in so many words keep my opinions to myself, but please, please, help us when we have a problem and oh come on write some more tutorials.

I feel so used. <wink>

Just for John, you've threatened to leave and actually said you were so many times, I bet some wish you would. But John, please don't go. I mean, how can I be a comic if my straight man runs away?

And John, just once be honest. You don't only want to talk shop, you want to scream you're a professional with 35 years experience over and over and over again.

No John, nobody from Sony asked me to tone it down, and no John I don't call them to complain about you or anybody. According to a little birdie, that's your thing. And finally no, I never have sued or threatened to sue anybody. That would be Spot you're thinking of who threatend to sue me because I didn't think much of his book. I'm sure he's so glad you brought the topic up again. Douglas is trying hard to stay in good guy mode.

OK, folks, this is exactly why I feel like I need to defend myself.

BB: "according to him he reserves the right to judge me"

PROVE IT, show me where I said that. I'll save you the trouble, you can't, what I ACTUALLY said (and it was just a couple of posts above) was that I reserve the right to defend myself. Also, I did indeed call you "scum" but only after you said Spot was a drunken Indian. Myself and more than a few others thought you really earned the "scum" label with that remark. If the shoe fits, buddy.

BB: "Odd, nobody here except one other person called Cline on his total out of control conduct. Interesting."

No, what's truly interesting is that only ONE person has called me on my "total out of control conduct" and ONLY one person has ever come to YOUR defense. Curiously, I believe that they were the same individual. I could probably find at least a hundred posts where others have called YOU on your out of control behavior.

BB: "you want to scream you're a professional with 35 years experience over and over and over again."

I just did a search of all my posts where I used the word "professional" and I didn't find a single one where I screamed, "I am a professional with 35 years of experience!" I MAY have mentioned it perhaps once in the context of a thread and you have never let go of it. I have mentioned it several times since then to YOU in the context of saying that, by literal definition, I am a professional because, for close to thirty-five years, I have made my living exclusively from audio and video production. You show me ONE post where I tried to denigrate someone (other than you) by making that completely factual claim. That simply isn't my style.

Billy, leave me the hell alone.

John

I never called Spot a druken indian. I made use of satire that got totally blown out of all proportion after Spot went into another of his infamous copyright rants, which ALWAYS are bitter and totally inappropriate here. Neither Douglas or anyone else has the right to lecture anyone or hint they may be breaking the law, stealing money from him or other artists or any of the other BS spouted or engage in bitter scolding over the use of material he nor nobody has any real way of knowing was obtained legally or not. Even if somebody did break the law, it isn't Spot's place to play copyright police in this forum. Sometimes Spot's needs to be reminded of that since it seems he can't remember that's what he' too often does.

Its always revealing when a bigot attempts to justify his use of scum or other nastly putdowns. That's you John. You know what, not even on your best day could you say anything to get me mad. I just pity creeps like you.

Spot, others, obviously are a little thin skinned and while they can sling mud, it become crystal clear they can't take harmless ribbing. You Cline are in a league of your own. Always in the sewer.

You admitted yourself today you get VERY ANGRY reading my posts yet you insist on reading my posts. That confirms you have a serious anger managment problem. Get help for it. You're your own worse enemy.

Billy,

Here is EXACTLY what you said, unedited, word for word, copied DIRECTLY from your own post, misspelled words and all:

""Oh my, the old Indian chief had another conniption fit. With or without the benefit of alcholic beverages, only he knows. Was it with or without war paint?"

Gee, it sure SEEMS to me like you called him a drunken Indian and it was the furthest thing from "harmless ribbing." And, by the way, the thread from which this post came had NOTHING to do with copyrights. Billy, why the hell do you try so hard to rewrite your own history when it is in black & white staring you right in the face?

John

Truly, the most frustrating thing about all of this for me is that I can't seem to get on BillyBoy's bad side. Since besides being a Vegas user, I'm also a Vendor, I try to do everything I can to get attention here.

I've disagreed with BB, I've taken Spot's side on arguments (not just to get attention, Spot is easily the most benificial and helpful person to this forum.), I've pointed out repeatedly that I'M A PROFESSIONAL!!!!

I've even produced video ( TheForumator.wmv ) expressing my opinion of the rather "Negative" attitude of postings in this forum.

-- And... Nothing!!!! I certainly posess the qualities that BB hates. I keep telling everyone that I'm a PROFESSIONAL voice talent. My experience and abilities with Vegas is limited, yet I still offer "advice" from time to time.... I'm sure I've got more ego problems than Spot or John (Hey, I make my living as talent.), and I'm certainly here more to promote myself than I am to help others. BB would much rather disparage those who actually have important things to contribute.

Travis

Travis - your voice is amaaaaaaaazing!

And...that movie gave me a chuckle!

:)

Hah!!! It to see things like this that I voted "Y" to the other thread... Niiiiice job Travis !!!

Gonzoman,

The answer to your original question is obviously a "No".

....and now we return to "Romper Room", already in progress..

I just added some users to my "ignore" list. Hopefully this will make my experiences here more peaceful. Oh, and great video Travis. Nice message.

Aloha,

Gabe

VOguy also known as that very bad person


I'm astonished that you have never been able to see that YOU are also a big part of the problem we're discussing. You have continually labored under the dangerous delusion that you are "squeaky clean" and that when the moderators are speaking that it only applies to someone else and never you. Unbelieveble!

You are like a stuck record about this whole "professional" issue, you bring it up in virtually every thread you post in, whether it has anything to do with the thread or not. I noticed you just hijacked another thread not ten minutes ago harping on this professional stuff.

I think what it's going to take is for Sony to ban BOTH<<< error I mean you.. of us permanently from the forum. I am willing to do whatever it takes to shut you up so the rest of the forum can discuss Vegas in some measure of peace and tranquility.

annonymus