I was told by a tech that VV3 had the "CDA 4.0" version in its program, so what's new in CDA 5.0 is over and above "both"..

Vegas 3 has Disc-At-Once CD burning features. The list Ted posted above are things that CDA5 has that Vegas 3 does not.
///d@

Now why would CDA 5.0 finally get these CDA 4.0 features before Vegas 3.0, which was promised to be the replacement for CDA 4.0? Can we finish with one products illuded promised features before moving onto the next? You know, one complete app, is a lot better than 4 incomplete ones.

- Import Sound Forge regions as tracks; markers as indices
- CD emulation mode (unmute fades)
- PQ list printing
- PQ subcode extraction from CDs

Rednroll:

I don't think Vegas 3 was ever held up as a feature-for-feature "CDA4 replacement". Vegas 3 was our Red Book disc-at-once burning solution (and therefore it's what was offered after CDA4 was discontinued), but it would never be possible to include all of the task-specific functionality of CDA in a general-purpose tool like Vegas.

After including DAO burning in Vegas 3 and discontinuing CDA4, we heard from a lot of people about how Vegas 3 just wasn't cutting it for the work they used to use and love CDA4 for, and would we please bring back CDA. So, after some time (insert calendar pages flipping by) and hard work (insert more calendar pages flipping by), we came out with the retooled and vastly improved CDA5. Now, you're telling us we should have just shoveled all of that functionality in Vegas? The masses would disagree with you there.

Four focused applications are better than one overstuffed and unfocused application. There are plenty of examples of both out there that support this statement.

///d@

"Four focused applications are better than one overstuffed and unfocused application. There are plenty of examples of both out there that support this statement."

Yes, I totally agree with this statement. However....The only problem is that the Sonic Foundry focal point tends to change with the wind. So how do you develope a "focused application", when the focal point is constantly changing?

Psssssssssstt....what's that I hear? CDA functionality in Sound Forge now?? Because that's what people have been REALLY asking for. I read the Sound Forge forums on a daily basis, and that's what people really want. Give me Sound Forge with Disk-at-Once capability and the ease of editing multiple events and moving track ID's LIKE CD architect, all within my Stereo editor, where stereo editing and plugin effects belong. Only "Track-at-Once" recordability in Sound Forge!? What a joke....don't try to give me some B.S. about what the "masses want." The masses want Sound Forge to have the CD architect features....do a search in the Sound Forge forums and look at all the questions of "How do I put multiple tracks onto a CD from within Sound Forge?" Your answer to this question: "Buy Vegas 3.0....oh wait we changed our minds...now buy CDA 5.0". Where someone like Steinberg comes in and puts the function of Sound Forge and CDA 5.0 all in 1 program where it belongs.....you know what the name is of that application.....and I wouldn't consider that app to be one of your "overstuffed and unfocused applications." Seems pretty focused, stereo editor and CD authoring tool in one.....just like what the "masses" are asking for.

Regards,
Red

Usually I don't agree with Rednroll but I have to say that I share the same opinion about these statements.

In defense of SoFo, I would say that their apps are really great quality and the registered customers prices are very fair (in comparison to Steinberg apps prices).
That changes kinda much the equation.
And by reading the CD Architect forum, it seemed to me that Sofo really listened this time to customers request instead of only planning "products for the masses".

In all the sofo line of products, what upsets me is that for having any small features users are asking you have to wait until the next major update and pay the upgrade price.
And the features Rednroll is pointing out should have been in Vegas 3.

I am thinking of other companies and for instance Cakewalk is listening much to customers and in revisions they add and correct small features users are asking for. And I think many of the asked features are no big think to implement (I am thinking to small layout things, key bindings for instance).
With cakewalk, I would buy the upgrade blindly as I know they care about keeping their current version very usefull to users.

For instance with Vegas, it would not be have been much to add these small missing features to a revision. And that doesn't mean that it would not tend users to buy the new apps. I think it would probably strength the Sofo user base instead.

The primary function of my studio is audio and CD Architect was the best cd burning software. Why would I try to use a video editing program to burn my audio cds? I am glad that Sonic Foundry is supporting and upgrading CD Architect. I was one of the guys who called and asked for it. I was using Premiere for video and didn't have a need to purchase Vegas Video just so I could burn cds even though I recently purchased Vegas Video cause I decided I like it better than Premiere.

Don't know what I'll do with my VV3 now...got CD5.0...so prolly take it off and see how it melds with my acid 4 and soundforge 6 for the time bein'...

I totally agree with Rednroll. I like SF's products a lot but this business model of "create a great app but leave out the most obvious feature and put it in another program so they'll have to buy both" is BS. It seems more like a drug pusher getting you on the comeback than a software company concerned with what their users really want. I agree I love CDA 5 and will probably get it (since they've offered a decent price) but I buy SF products solely on what they do now and don't "invest" in the future. I was kind of bummed that I didn't upgrade from Soundforge 5 to 6 after seeing the "how much time you'll save" video. Then I downloaded the demo of 6 and realized all it did was delay your cuts and pastes until you saved (which most other apps have been doing for years). And what's with the "I can cut a section, paste it back in, cut it out, paste in back in, over and over almost instantaneously"! No duh! All Windows programs work like that (and that fast - what took you so long to catch up)? Who does real-world edits like that (cut a piece out and paste it right back in at the same place, over and over)? When it did apply your edits it took just as much time as v5. This at best should have been a .1 upgrade but a whole version? And for that price? The same with realtime plugins: Soundforge is supposed to be a mastering app but you can't use plugins in realtime (only destructively)? But wait a minute, buy Acid and you can! CDA5 will be the last thing I ever purchase from them unless things change considerably.

Freendeed said something to the effect that SF6's non-destructive editing was a 0.1 upgrade. No way, it was a fundamental change in the way the program operated (and probably it's core code).


"Soundforge is supposed to be a mastering app but you can't use plugins in realtime (only destructively)? ". Wrong - you certainly can preview the effects in realtime before applying destructively. The little > (Preview) button in the chain toolbar does. The 'tick' (Process Selection) applies the effect chain permanently.

SF is a stereo editing program, not a mastering program, although that's what I clumsily used until CDA5 showed up.

geoff

"The primary function of my studio is audio and CD Architect was the best cd burning software. Why would I try to use a video editing program to burn my audio cds?"

Because, Vegas Video is their most powerful "Audio" editing program, but somehow that get's lost due to Sonic Foundry's brilliant marketing. Why would you use a 2 track editor, when you could have an unlimited track editor, with individual volume controls for every CD Track? You like to be limited to 2 tracks? CD Architect IS NOT the best CD burning software, Vegas Video is. Don't you think that maybe, further developement on the CD editing side, may increase features like DVD authoring within VEGAS, so you could edit a DVD and add Track ID's also in future releases. Think outside of the box, and think of the possibilities....hmmmm a video and audio editor that could allow you to do DVD and CD authoring? Wow!!! what a f**king concept. Or are you gonna wait for them to eventually put Video editing within CD architect for this type of feature?

Hey Red,

How do you do waveform editing (such as 'drawing') in Vegas ? Thinking even further 'outside the cliche', I think it's a scandal that we can't actually do everything like this in Word or Excel.

geoff

I do it by "right clicking" on the event and doing a "open copy in sound forge", or I just use the "Noise reduction" click removal within Vegas......I believe this would be the same method you would have to use in CDA 5....so I'm missing the point if you're trying to make one.

How would you overlap 6 events occuring at the same time and mixing each one at different levels and different EQ's and route 1 FX send of each of those 6 events to a buss FX so they're all being processed the same through a buss plugin, and at the same time route a 2nd FX send to another FX? You figure out how to do that in CDA 5 and then let me know, and I might consider suporting this worthless release.

You think if they where going to redesign a CD authoring app from the ground up, you might think an option of multiple burner support would be necessary, so you could burn more than 1 CD at a time....nero's only been able to do this for over 2 years now. Oh..yeah..that's the reason why you have to have the "CD image file rendering" option.....so you can use yet ANOTHER app to burn your CD's, that way you don't have to write your own code and include ALL the features that most CD burning programs have had for years....NICE!!!

Christ, what a bunch of whiners!

First off, if you're already a registered user, you get one helluva deal on any Sofo upgrade, regardless of the version you're currently running. And what do they put out, maybe three upgrades a year? So that means for about 3 c-notes you can stay current on all the latest Sofo tools if you want. That's about the price of one Macromedia upgrade.

Secondly, Forge was never marketed as a CD mastering tool and not all audio is destined for CD, so some of y'all need to quit being so damned self-centered about feature sets. To bloat Forge's code so as to integrate CDA entirely is just going to piss off those people who just want a simple audio editor (and if you don't think Forge is the most intuitive one out there, you're batsh*t insane).

So CDA has many of Forge's functions built-in, so what? If all you need is a CD mastering tool, then drop Forge and skip Vegas. But anyone who's ever recorded a multi-track project in Vegas and has quickly burned a rough mix to CD can attest that CDA and Vegas are capable of handling vastly different jobs, and amen for that.

My guess is down the road the burning features of CDA and Vegas will continue to diverge and that Vegas will become the preferred tool for DVD-Audio mastering (5.1 mixing and DVD burning capability) and that CDA will remain the tool for plain ol' CD mastering. But what do I know?

Just quit makin' noise and start makin' music, y'all ...

Fats...! you're beginning to sound like a broken record...move on..!