also, make sure you get a cd stomper so you can put the label on the cd or dvd perfect every time
go to a computer store or pick one up at a computer show--they are about $10
this is a must
sb

I've only used the doughnut shaped labels that fit the whole disc, with no problems.

I wouldn't put a regular rectangular label on a CD/DVD unless it was small and placed near the center. Otherwise, the disc is out of balance, and in a 40x reader, that could be a problem. BTW, at 50x, most discs break apart. I don't think you're going to see faster than 40x drives unless they start using multiple read heads.

Truth be told, 99% of my discs are written on with a Sharpie(tm), the universal disc labeling tool <g>. Sam's Club has spools of 100, in pure white, no other printing.

///d@

Most of the CD-R manufacturers recommend non-alcohol based markers. Apparenltly the alcohol can penetrate through the laquer and damage the data layer. After finding nothing but alcohol based markers in the local stores, i called Sandford (the makers of Sharpie™) and asked if they had a line of toluol-based markers. They transferred me to one of their product engineers and she said she had never heard of the recommendation. She did say that the Sandford folks have been writing on their CD-Rs with Sharpie™ markers (of course) for years with no troubles. As an experiment, i burned a CD and then emptied nearly half a Sharpie™ coating it with as much ink as possible and rubbing it into the laquer surface as hard as possible. 4 years later that disc is still readable. I guess it's safe.

Just out of curiosity, i've come across a few CD-Rs with the data layer sandwiched inside the plastic instead of on top with only laquer covering it. Does anyone know why CD-Rs aren't all made with the data layer in the middle? It seems very risky to have it on the outside of the plastic. Maxell CD-Rs can be destroyed by a few drops of water! Touching the laquer with a ball point pen will usually destroy the disc too.

Dennis,

> Truth be told, 99% of my discs are written on with a Sharpie(tm), the universal disc labeling tool. <

I too use the Sanford Sharpie exclusively for labeling CD-Rs and CD-RWs. My current one is the Fine Point, but I think I will also get an Extra Fine Point for when I want to write more on the CD.

Two of the new Epson inkjet printers will be able to print directly on CDs via an included accessory front-loading CD tray. This is a much less expensive solution than the currently available dedicated CD printers. The Epson Stylus Photo 950 is an A4 sized printer and the Epson Stylus 2100 is an A3+ sized printer. I don't believe either is available in the U.S. yet. But they should be available in a month or two. For preliminary news stories, see:

http://www.dp-now.com/news/Mar2002/dpnnews166/dpnnews166.html

http://www.dp-now.com/news/Apr2002/dpnnews188/dpnnews188.html

-- Burton --

I believe there were a couple of ill-fated products introduced at one time that printed directly onto the disc. They were expensive and quickly succumbed to the present stick-on labels that arrived in tandem with the maturing and lower costs of the inkjet printers/inks and scanners.

I'm embarrassed when I think that I paid around $1,800 for a scanner when the first consumer models became available. Most folks were buying handhelds that could only scan four inches at a time, but I wanted that full-page capability. I was light-days ahead of most of the folks I knew, but, of course, printing from that four color dot-matrix ribbon (while impressive to others in that day) was less than gratifying to me.

Of course, CD's were almost exotic, listen-audio-only, handle with care items in those days. Cutting edge computer storage was accomplished using 3.5 floppies.

Today, I enjoy making those CD-labels almost as much as I enjoy restoring vinyl LPS and preparing CD compilations.

CD's that I'm making for others get fancy stick-on labels incorporating elements captured from live video of the event or scanned from record jackets and such. Stuff I'm doing for myself gets direct-printed in "Caruso-script" using a medium-fat felt-tip that doesn't even have a brand marked on it (thing seems to last forever, even though I've forgotten and left the top off for a day or two).

I've never encountered a problem with either the labels or the felt-tip. I've read quite a bit about why one needs to be careful in marking CD's, but I'm guessing that a lot of it is either over-cautious or, perhaps, obsolete owing to improvements in the design/manufacture of the CD medium, itself.

I have had occasion to need (want) to remove one of those doughnut labels. It's not easy, and, if you get impatient, you'll have another chore of removing the gum residue left behind, but, impatient or no, it can be done. I've successfully removed labels from both sides (yes, I confess to having applied the label to the wrong side once or twice, duh), and, in all cases, the disc was still useable.

I was always skeptical of the claim that felt-tip inks could migrate into the data layer and ruin the CD. There is so little ink applied, and it dries almost on contact. How much active residue is left to migrate? If the data surface were that sensitive, we wouldn't be able to touch it with our hands (just thinking out loud). Now, I'm sure there must be some documentation somewhere that caused all this caution, but, like most of you, I have never had a problem.

Perhaps someone who has some technical knowledge in this area, or someone who can actually "neuter" discs regularly can comment.

Very good thread, however, and, btw, my scanner is still just as useful today as it was 12 years ago, so, I guess I need not be too ashamed of what I paid for it.

Caruso

I use a pen called Identi-Pen obtained from my local art shop. They come in colors and write permenantly on any surface including glass. I have never had a problem with the CDs I have written on. The info on the pen is:

Identi-pen
Permenant ink, dual-point marking pen.
Conforms to ASTM-D4236
Sakura color products corporation - Made in Japan

I think you need to think about the question seperately...CD or DVD.

There is obviously going to be far more experience involving labels on CDs than DVDs. I myself have never had problems using Fellowes labels on CDs or come to that matter DVDs. (My DVDs tend to be about 1hr 15mins or so).

On other forums I visit people's experience of labels on CDs are fine but on DVDs not so reliable. There are fears expressed about glue coming unstuck & ruining stand alone players though I've yet to see "that happened to me" but I have read first hand accounts of imbalance caused by labels on DVDs forcing standalone players to have problems reading them. The tolerance for imbalance is supposed to be far less for DVD.

If you are going to use them a stomper is a must as already said.

CD inkjet printers are still expensive, but if your output is high !

Thanks to all. I am a dedicated Sharpie user, but I was asking about professional labels (don't think "McPrint" looks very glamorous on the disc...). The issue that I came across, thru techtv, involved heat, specifically, and whether regular stick-ons are thermally acceptable for DVD. So, I think I will check out Epson, especially since I'm a big fan of theirs. Might be worth it if I don't have to stick the things on - besides, even the labels cost quite a bit, and try as I might, it's not easy to get the images perfectly calibrated.

Brod,

> I think you need to think about the question separately...CD or DVD. <

Good point. The technology is different in several relevant ways.

> There are fears expressed about glue coming unstuck & ruining stand alone players though I've yet to see "that happened to me" but I have read first hand accounts of imbalance caused by labels on DVDs forcing standalone players to have problems reading them. The tolerance for imbalance is supposed to be far less for DVD. <

The rotational speeds are getting higher in the disc players, and that implies higher centrifugal forces, and greater vibration if there is any imbalance.

Also, just the weight of a perfectly balanced stomper label adds significantly to the rotational inertia of the disc. The spinning disc is trying to act as a gyroscope, and if you accidentally move the drive or the computer in which it is housed, you could get some potentially harmful precessional motion of the disc. The drive's bearings would be stressed in a way that they might not be designed for, as would the disc itself. All of which would be aggravated by any added mass to the disc.

> CD inkjet printers are still expensive, but if your output is high ! <

If you are going to buy an inkjet printer anyway, you had just as well get a model that "throws in" printing on a CD as an additional feature. My old Epson Stylus Photo has been printing fine since mid 1997, but I will probably replace it within a year or so to get even higher quality photo prints, more permanent inks, and a larger printing size. So I plan to pick a printer that has one of the front-loading CD trays as an included accessory. That way, CD printing may not be exactly free, but it won't cost very much more.

-- Burton --

Burton,

I must say the Epson 950 does look promising !!

My $.02.

I think most CD label company glues have improved, but remain causious, and if you have any doubt about it not staying down, don't use it. And once it's down, Don't take it off, you can't without usually ripping off the refective foil layer.

For I had the honor of experiencing the magic of memorex. I stuck a printed memorex label to a burned Kodak CDR, put it into my 5-disc Harmon Kardon. It played fine, then abra kadabra, when the drawer opened, presto, it was gone! The sound that it made when the drawer attempted to close, well, if you've ever restarted a new car you'd know the sound. AND it didn't stop until I unplugged it. I had to dismatle it to get the CD out, for whatever reason, it never worked again.

I think it was hungry and stopped working out of spite. It turns out that the heat of just playing the cd, loosened the glue & the label curled up and stuck to and internal mechanism.

One thing no one has mentioned, is about the ink being waterproof/smearproof. Not that I plan on spilling on my CDs, but Roxio's recommendations on cleaning include placing the whole CD under warm running water & using mild bar or liquid soap. Well, that won't work with a label.

Short of buying a $3k Primera Inscripta thermal ribbon transfer printer, does anyone know of any other ways to print directly AND have it be waterproof or at least water resistant. I see that Primera's Signature series printers, when used with their special "Tuff-whatever" cds are "Highly water and smear-resistant", but are careful not to claim that about their ink.

Isn't there some inkjets that use waterproof ink. I can't remember which company it was or where I read it. Probably not Epson, since the printhead is permanent and could get clogged, but I'm thinking it would have to be one that had the printhead as part of the cartidge, like the HP's. or maybe LEXMARK? Any ideas?

I know HP makes some waterproof inks, but i believe they're only available for the engineering series of printers (the big D sized & bigger plotters) and not for the DeskJets. However, the last time i looked was a few years back. They may have some special order stuff available now. I know the new 900 series inks are much more water resistant than the 800 series, so maybe they're working towards it with the regular cartridges.

Jeffrey,

> One thing no one has mentioned, is about the ink being waterproof/smearproof. Not that I plan on spilling on my CDs, but Roxio's recommendations on cleaning include placing the whole CD under warm running water & using mild bar or liquid soap. Well, that won't work with a label. Short of buying a $3k Primera Inscripta thermal ribbon transfer printer, does anyone know of any other ways to print directly AND have it be waterproof or at least water resistant. <

The new Epson 2100/2200 printer (2100 in USA, 2200 in UK) can print directly on a CD and it uses new solid pigment inks. To quote from the Epson press release, "The revolutionary UltraChrome inkset is reformulated quick-dry pigment ink that provides improved colour gamut, gloss levels and longevity of between 45 and 75 years (dependent on media)." The press release is at:

http://www.dp-now.com/news/Apr2002/dpnnews188/dpnnews188b/dpnnews188b.html

More details about the new solid pigment inks are given on this long page (you need to give it time to load and then scroll down to see it all) at:

http://www.dp-now.com/news/Apr2002/dpnnews188/dpnnews188a/dpnnews188a.html

Of course, it remains to be seen how well this UltraChrome stuff actually sticks to a CD. But it's not a water soluble dye, and it is resin coated, so it might work rather well. Time will tell.

-- Burton --