Changing proxy format to speed up Proxy Building in Vegas 22

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 8/8/2024, 1:01 PM

I thought I read somewhere recently that as of Vegas 22 (or 21?) we could change the proxy format Vegas uses when building proxies.

(I realize there were discussions of using other tools to build the proxies, with hit or miss success based on format and options)

I can't find anywhere to specify a different format, only finding an option in project settings to change the Prerendered Video format and location. (and even then, formats like Magix AVC don't show up when I try selecting a format)

Am I misunderstanding or just not looking in the right place?

Comments

pierre-k wrote on 8/8/2024, 1:33 PM

Nothing has improved in this area. Proxy quality is lousy and will probably be for a long time. It is always 720p and looks worse in the preview window than in the player.

If you want prerendered, you can choose a codec. If you want to change the proxy, you can't do anything.

pierre-k wrote on 8/8/2024, 1:35 PM

You can use the happy otter script. But it's not free.

pierre-k wrote on 8/8/2024, 1:38 PM

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/please-fix-4k-proxy-and-preview-half-vs-full-in-1080p-project--134988/?page=1

RogerS wrote on 8/8/2024, 9:45 PM

No change to proxies. Maybe you are thinking of selective prerender?

mark-y wrote on 8/9/2024, 12:48 AM

The fastest, lightest, and smoothest proxy format remains MPEG-2. I test them every few months because I have a suboptimal i5 computer.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with MPEG-2 quality compared against other compressed software codecs. Changes promised to resolution, formats, and preview options in Vegas are eagerly awaited.

3POINT wrote on 8/9/2024, 7:41 AM

The fastest, lightest, and smoothest proxy format remains MPEG-2. I test them every few months because I have a suboptimal i5 computer.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with MPEG-2 quality compared against other compressed software codecs. Changes promised to resolution, formats, and preview options in Vegas are eagerly awaited.

Indeed, and that's why Vegas still uses XDCAM MPEG-2 for proxy creation.

J-Toresen wrote on 8/9/2024, 10:16 AM

@mark-y

There is absolutely nothing wrong with MPEG-2 quality compared against other compressed software codecs. Changes promised to resolution, formats, and preview options in Vegas are eagerly awaited.

@3POINT wrote:

Indeed, and that's why Vegas still uses XDCAM MPEG-2 for proxy creation

That's true. But s not the only reason. Read VEGASDerek’s explanation here:

http://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/please-fix-4k-proxy-and-preview-half-vs-full-in-1080p-project--134988/?page=2#ca922252

Jøran

3POINT wrote on 8/9/2024, 11:06 AM

@mark-y

There is absolutely nothing wrong with MPEG-2 quality compared against other compressed software codecs. Changes promised to resolution, formats, and preview options in Vegas are eagerly awaited.

@3POINT wrote:

Indeed, and that's why Vegas still uses XDCAM MPEG-2 for proxy creation

That's true. But s not the only reason. Read VEGASDerek’s explanation here:

http://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/please-fix-4k-proxy-and-preview-half-vs-full-in-1080p-project--134988/?page=2#ca922252

Jøran

Probably before that is implemented into Vegas, editing computers have become that fast or the new Vegas video engine is finished so that proxy creation isn't necessary anymore. In mentioned thread I predicted already 2 years ago that improvement of proxy creation is probably superfluous.

On my editing computer (almost 2,5 year old, see my signature) I edit 2160p50 natively without any need for proxies.

mark-y wrote on 8/9/2024, 5:54 PM

Long-GOP formats, such as AVC / MP4 are not generally acceptable for building proxies. In their XAVC-S and XAVC-I formats, they are no more efficient, faster, or better quality than MPEG-2.

VEGASDerek wrote on 8/9/2024, 6:41 PM

We were playing with the idea of using ProRes for proxies. It renders and can be read quickly and efficiently, it offers flexibility with color space info and is fairly easy to use in Vegas.

mark-y wrote on 8/9/2024, 8:12 PM

We were playing with the idea of using ProRes for proxies. It renders and can be read quickly and efficiently, it offers flexibility with color space info and is fairly easy to use in Vegas.

I wholeheartedly agree with pursuing that route. I use ProRes 422 for almost all of my digital intermediates from film and image acquisition through post-processing in multiple Vegas versions and external encoders, as necessary for my recent projects. ProRes 444 just doesn't cut it in my underpowered i5 system. Here's one result:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18aUhmLFpTWtu1yFSRkz2CL7bTBLgkA3U&usp=drive_fs

@VEGASDerek

UltraVista wrote on 8/9/2024, 9:21 PM

We were playing with the idea of using ProRes for proxies. It renders and can be read quickly and efficiently, it offers flexibility with color space info and is fairly easy to use in Vegas.

Does anyone have experience with Apple ProRes 422 Proxy, how easily does it degrade with erratic fast movement, if it looks good then 45 Mbps 1080p proxies has my official backing. If it does degrade, have an LT option, but I"m certain 422 proxy can't possibly look as bad as current proxies.

The people that swear the current proxy quality is good should be able to easily read the text, but to me it looks like Alien hieroglyphs.

3POINT wrote on 8/10/2024, 2:14 AM

The people that swear the current proxy quality is good should be able to easily read the text, but to me it looks like Alien hieroglyphs.

A proxy is a lores but less compressed copy of a hires compressed video, which makes it easier to get a smooth preview on less powered PC's. That's were proxies for. When you want to see the details again just switch back to the original view.

UltraVista wrote on 8/10/2024, 4:20 AM

@3POINT The 25MB/s 720P ProRes 422 Proxy looks much better than the 15MB/s 720P Vegas XDCAM proxies, they still look degraded but text is much more legible, The 45MB/s 1080P ProRs422 Proxy looks very good, but that bitrate is a bit high I guess. Certainly on your criteria the 720P version will be an upgrade as far as quality and speed of creation and maybe even the potential to color grade 10bit footage with the proxy if for some reason you wanted to do that unless you explicitly can't do that with Vegas due to different processing pipelines.

3POINT wrote on 8/10/2024, 5:00 AM

@UltraVista I don't know how you compare, but 720p XDCAM proxy is 35 MB/s and the 720p Prores 422 Proxy is 38,6 MB/s and also comparing them playing on the Vegas timeline, the XDCAM proxy looks far more crisper than the Prores proxy on my preview monitor and that's obvious when I compare media info of both:

UltraVista wrote on 8/10/2024, 5:43 AM

@3POINT what the current proxy does to to text is unacceptable, the compression is too high, at 30fps Prores 422 Proxy is 23MB/s in last encode, the XDCAM is 24fps. Prores is a variable bit rate codec. I'd like the new proxy to look a little better than the 720P prores proxy but what can you do, if you turn the resolution and bitrate too high there will be constant complaints about Vegas filling up people's drives.

pierre-k wrote on 8/10/2024, 6:14 AM

The xdcam proxy files that you play in the windows player look good. The problem is the quality in the preview window in Vegas. Downgrades video quality to 320x240. If the guys would fix this problem, then we don't have to deal with the quality of the xdcam proxy here.

It is special that Vegasaur and Happy Otter script do not have this problem with proxy preview degradation in the preview window. So it can be solved without flying the springs from the old video engine.

gorGaram wrote on 8/10/2024, 6:23 AM

We were playing with the idea of using ProRes for proxies. It renders and can be read quickly and efficiently, it offers flexibility with color space info and is fairly easy to use in Vegas.

I think this is one of the best (simple and fast) options. It would be nice to add the bitrate option to the profile settings (in case of output to this preset). And the issue can be considered closed.

3POINT wrote on 8/10/2024, 10:46 AM

@3POINT what the current proxy does to to text is unacceptable, the compression is too high, at 30fps Prores 422 Proxy is 23MB/s in last encode, the XDCAM is 24fps. Prores is a variable bit rate codec. I'd like the new proxy to look a little better than the 720P prores proxy but what can you do, if you turn the resolution and bitrate too high there will be constant complaints about Vegas filling up people's drives.

@UltraVista What are you talking about text, my 4k camera doesn't film text. Are you talking about 4k screengrabs? Capture your screengrabs with the right codec and there's no need for proxy creation.

FYI XDCAM proxies are always 24fps, no matter the framerate of your footage/project, but no problem each frame of your footage is covered in the 24 fps proxy (so no missing frames). This 24fps proxy will just be played at projectframerate (speedup to 25,30 or even 50,60 fps) and everything is fine.

@pierre-k

The xdcam proxy files that you play in the windows player look good. The problem is the quality in the preview window in Vegas. Downgrades video quality to 320x240. If the guys would fix this problem, then we don't have to deal with the quality of the xdcam proxy here.

In the WP XDCAM proxies are played at 24fps.

What's your problem with quality in the preview window of Vegas?

Preview XDCAM Proxy:

Preview Original;

pierre-k wrote on 8/10/2024, 11:12 AM

What's your problem with quality in the preview window of Vegas?

Preview XDCAM Proxy:

Preview Original;

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/please-fix-4k-proxy-and-preview-half-vs-full-in-1080p-project--134988/?page=1

3POINT wrote on 8/10/2024, 11:17 AM

@pierre-k Just leave your preview on full, what sense does it make to create lores proxies and view them in a even lower half or quarter resolution?

pierre-k wrote on 8/10/2024, 11:20 AM

I don't have to use a proxy anymore because the Uhd770 accelerates my videos. But it used to annoy me a lot.

pierre-k wrote on 8/10/2024, 11:32 AM

@pierre-k Just leave your preview on full, what sense does it make to create lores proxies and view them in a even lower half or quarter resolution?

you must understand the following....

If the user has a slow PC and edits 4k files and the resulting video will be 1080p, then logically set the project to 1080p. At that moment, the 4k proxy in the 1080p project looks ugly on the full and half preview.

If you put the sv0p proxy file...or whatever it's called...into a 1080p project, the video itself looks great.

Try it yourself. Create a proxy 4k in 1080p project. The video is nastier than the original proxy file.

3POINT wrote on 8/10/2024, 11:33 AM

I don't have to use a proxy anymore because the Uhd770 accelerates my videos. But it used to annoy me a lot.

For me it's more than three years ago that I regularly used proxies to edit 4k footage on me previous and ancient PC. Never had a problem with them. Ofcourse proxy creation was also slow on that PC and final rendering took ages. But on my newer PC I can preview/edit and render 2160p50/60 real time without any need for proxies.

The only reason I could think about using proxies is for multicam editing, which I don't do, but in that case I would transcode the camera footages with a tool like Shutterencoder, probably to Prores, and use those for editing.