Chapter/Marker locations in wrong place (revisited)

johnmeyer wrote on 9/8/2004, 7:58 AM
This problem has been talked about a lot recently:

Flash Frames in Scene Selection Menus

Chapter location in final DVD doesn't match DVDA location

Can't stop flash frame before returning to menu

I have been corresponding with technical support on this and am disappointed to report that it doesn't appear that engineering has any interest in fixing the problem. I can understand if a fix had to wait until the next release, but not to fix it at all is unbelievable. The DVDs I am making using the Vegas and DVDA combination are increasingly showing this problem (where DVDA puts the chapter stop 1-3 seconds earlier than where it is placed in Vegas, or where it is placed directly in DVDA -- even though the DVDA preview feature plays the "disk" with the chapter point where it should be).

I am not sure what my next move should be. I am really stuck. I can move the chapter stops a few seconds later, but I then have to do a prepare, and then after that play the resulting VOB files in WinDVD. Only then can I tell if the chapter points are at close enough to where they are supposed to be (to avoid having part of the previous scene played). I therefore often have to prepare a project 2-3 times. At 20 minutes per prepare this gets old very fast.

I guess I could finally take the plunge and get Encore, or Workshop, or DVD Lab, or something higher end, but that is money and time as well. Perhaps it is time to install the latest Adobe demos (including Premiere) and try again there.

I have been cranking out 2-4 different DVDs per day over the past three weeks, but I am producing more and more "coasters" as I keep finding these problems (problems not of my own creation).

What other recourse do you have when a vendor decides that a problem that is a showstopper for you is, in their opinion, not worth fixing?

This problem seems, to me, to be fundamental to the essential nature of the product. One of the main reasons to burn video onto a DVD is to get random access, rather than deal with the uncertain and long seek times in tape. However, if the chapter points only get you within a few seconds, and as a result make your work look like something from a first-semester high school video production class, then what is the point? Is this in keeping with the legacy of Sony quality?


Comments

farss wrote on 9/8/2004, 8:21 AM
John,
that's a bit disconcerting. Have they at least acknowledged that the problem does exist? I can understand if they cannot repo the problem but if they can and don't think it's worth fixing now that's not very useful.
I have my own set of annoyances, fortunately there ones I can work around but non the less they should have been fixed ages ago and they admit they're reproducable.
But as for DVDA, I haven't had the problem you're mentioning and I do a lot fo DVDs, about 16 in the past week and the chapter points seem to be where I've placed them, I can't say they're frame accurate or not as they're usually in a fade to black but if they are slightly out it'd be within the size of a GOP.
I guess it's to some extent a case of you get what you pay for, if I had the work to justify it I'd certainly be looking for a higher end app than DVDA but the price of the Sonic products which still seemsto be the industry standard is pretty overhelming and it's not just the purchase price, there seems to be a steep learning curve and much more work required to author even a simple DVD.

Bob.
johnmeyer wrote on 9/8/2004, 9:25 AM
Update: Apparently part of the reason it can't be fixed is that it would require changing the MPEG-2 encoding, and that code is owned and controlled by Mainconcept. This is a tougher problem, and I guess I need to back off my somewhat strident tone in the first post above, because it may not entirely be under Sony/SoFo's direct control. Perhaps I need to start posting over in the MainConcept Forums and see if I can shame them into doing something about this.
PeterWright wrote on 9/8/2004, 6:16 PM
John,
I sympathise, but like Bob I haven't had this problem - could it possibly be NTSC related?

In any event, I also try to be aware of where I'll be putting Chapter points in Vegas, and always try and place them in a fade down to colour or similar, before the next heading comes up. I know this isn't always easy with continuous action type productions, but it does make the actual split second performance less critical.

If you're producing DVDs at that rate, it must be so disruptive to have to police this aspect all the time.
cworld29 wrote on 9/8/2004, 6:38 PM
This problem popped up on a DVD I did recently. I put a marker at the beginning oc a credit sequence then right at the end where it fades to black. By doing this I was hoping to create a DVD that you could chapter skip right to the end then go back to the main menu.

In the final DVD the last chapter skip should be a black screen for a couple seconds then end action to the main menu. It actually skip about 2 seconds into the beginning of the next media file. It plays a couple seconds of this then puts me back at the main menu.

Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a grease pencil then cut it with an axe.
apit34356 wrote on 9/8/2004, 7:48 PM
johnmeyer, since it is GOP related, use a mepg2 analzer program, find the timeline you want and check for a starting GOP structure(exact time frame), then mark it for your charter index.
johnmeyer wrote on 9/8/2004, 8:52 PM
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a grease pencil then cut it with an axe.

Very good! Brilliant line. That captures the essence of the issue perfectly.