Comments

mjroddy wrote on 11/4/2006, 11:35 AM
I'll do my best to answer, but I'm sure you'll get better answers from The Masters here.
First, check out cineform.com
Great info for you there.
But since I'm not a big fan of indirect answers like that, I'll take a stab here:
Cineform is a "Digital Intermediary" (don't take my word on the spelling there). That means that you digitize your footage into this "intermediary" instead (or as well as) the M2T. You work with and use this "intermediary" INSTEAD of working with the M2T file. It's just another form of AVI, really. But in the case of Cineform, it's a much "better," more robust codec. They say that working with M2T files is not a good option if you do a lot of compositing and color correcting because it "falls apart" rather quickly (2-3 generations!), while the Cineform AVIs will hold together over many generations, giving you better control over your CCing and compositing and, in the end, better results.
Yikes, as long as I've been using Cineform, I'm still hazy on the subject, but I wanted you to get a quick answer.
If you do a search here in the forums, you'll find a ton of good info.
Hope this helps.
Serena wrote on 11/4/2006, 5:04 PM
To a first approximation you can think of Cineform HD as generating an uncompressed copy of the m2t clips (people using actual uncompressed 4:4:4 will object that the codec is good but not uncompressed!). To understand the advantage of this you should check out how mpeg (m2t 4:2:0 ) compression works, and in particular understand that most frames recorded to tape are abbreviated representations of a scene. Cineform decodes the m2t data and writes new files in which every frame is a full digital 4:2:2 representation of the scene at that frame time. Now when you copy and manipulate the data it is a "simple" process that maintains resolution that is a good as your original m2t through many copies. If you maintain m2t through post production, your computer is having to decode and encode at every generation, which leads to a much more rapid loss of information.
Laurence wrote on 11/4/2006, 5:23 PM
I've been kind of doing a "best of both worlds" approach lately. I put m2t's directly on the timeline, but any time I rerender or generate anything I use the Cineform codec.
MH_Stevens wrote on 11/5/2006, 6:38 AM
This months DV mag editorial has some interesting comments on just what "uncompressed" means.

Michael
GregFlowers wrote on 11/5/2006, 11:30 AM
Another important benefit of using the Cineform codec in versions of Vegas prior to V7 is the improved playback performance from the timeline. Trying to get smooth playback from the original m2t files or other full resolution formats (uncompressed, Huffy UV, Sony YUV, etc.) was virtually impossible. With Cineform, you had all of the benefits of of using a vitually lossless format with full frame rate playback. Also, prior to Vegas 6, using Connect HD was the only way to print HDV back to tape.

Now that Vegas 7 plays the original m2t files with full or nearly full rates from the timeline, Cineform has lost some of its early benefits. The general consensus here seems to be with Vegas 7 that if you are doing cuts-only editing with minimal color correction or compositing, using the original m2t file is acceptable or even preferred. If you will be doing moderate to heavy color correction, compositing or multiple renderings, using Cineform is the way to go.

I have Connect HD which is a stand alone Cineform encoding application with a few additional benefits. First, it installs the Cineform codec to all video applications like After Effects, CG programs, etc. so you can render to Cineform from other programs besides Vegas. It can also capture and encode m2t files in near real time from HDV cameras to the Cineform codec. It can now also deinterlace, change frame rates (like 24p and 30p,) and frame sizes during the capture process. It can split files at scene changes and keep the original m2t file in addition to the Cineform encoded file, if you want it to. It can also take other video files and upconvert them to the Cineform. I'm not sure how well it converts compared to Vegas but it does do it much faster.
Wolfgang S. wrote on 11/5/2006, 11:40 AM
As far as I know, the Cineform events show a less superior preview performance in Vegas 7b, comparded even with m2t 1080i files. Hope that will be recovered in future versions of both Vegas and the codec.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

Serena wrote on 11/5/2006, 4:00 PM
The recent v3.22 is running at correct speed for me in V7b, including levels correction. However this was just a quick test to check this particular point. Cineform update notes say nothing about improved preview speed in V7, so you'd need to evaluate for yourself.
MH_Stevens wrote on 11/5/2006, 5:55 PM
For me, on my 3.2gHz, Old Cinefor v2.2 that ran at full speed in 6 manages only 9fps in 7
Serena wrote on 11/5/2006, 8:34 PM
Yes, that's what I'd expect. You have to use the new release of Cineform in Vegas 7.
fldave wrote on 11/5/2006, 8:51 PM
So, essentially, you need to re-encode all Cineform avi's to the new format to have full speed playback in V7? Anybody measure any loss in the conversion?
Serena wrote on 11/6/2006, 4:37 PM
Well, you could go back to the m2t tapes and recapture, or stay with Vegas 6d until that project is finished. I haven't tried re-encoding old CF v2.xx IDs and that might be a good question to put to Cineform.
Jay-Hancock wrote on 11/7/2006, 7:07 AM
The general consensus here seems to be with Vegas 7 that if you are doing cuts-only editing with minimal color correction or compositing, using the original m2t file is acceptable or even preferred. If you will be doing moderate to heavy color correction, compositing or multiple renderings, using Cineform is the way to go.

It's much simpler than that. The question is, are you doing multiple generations of rendering or not? Read the quote from Sony (which was posted to a different thread):

From Sony:
If you are doing a render to new track or something similar that requires multiple generations of intermediates , you would be better off using uncompressed (the best option) or some format with less lossy compression for these intermediate renders than long-gop MPEG-2.