Clean Win 7-64 Install + 521 ONLY. Still crashes.

rhythmlake wrote on 1/28/2012, 10:17 AM
In an attempt to narrow down the crash culprit(s), I did (another) full, clean Win 7-64 install. This time, I loaded only Vegas 11... no plug-ins, no other audio/video software or drivers. The only software added was AVG free, DisplayFusion (to span wallpaper on dual monitors) & Irfanview, all of which have never interfered in the past.

I opened Vegas, loaded an m2t green screen clip (and an AVI in another test), dropped in a chroma blur and the generic Sony keyer plug-in, and began playing around. Normally, when using the Boris or newbluefx keyer, 11 would crash after a minute or two. It didn't take much this time, either, and a crash occurred, with just the generic keyer, and no other plugs on the system.

I have also tried disabling the AVG resident shield--no effect. Maybe there is another aspect of AVG that is causing problems? Anyone else running it with 11 successfully? I'm networked to my other PC, so I prefer to keep it active, yet maybe networking is another potential culprit?

Previously, after working for some time with my system on V9 & V10, then installing 11 and getting crashes, I decided to replace my 4gb RAM with all new 8gb Mushkin, so that (likely) rules out memory issues. All drives are defragged & optimized, all power/screensaver plans disabled, etc. I'm running an nVidia 8600GT with dual DVI monitors, and the latest driver. Also using a Bella Vegas DV Keyboard, but was getting crashes with a generic, as well.

As it sits, prior to installing all of my other vid/aud software & plug-ins, it's a bare-bones setup and is still unstable. Just prior to this latest clean install, Vegas 9 was running fairly stable; V10 had intermittent crashes, and V11 was a crash a minute. I would just resign myself back to using only 9, but I've grown fond of some of the Borisfx, which won't work in 9.

To narrow down possible commonalities, it would be nice to do a checkbox POLL where everyone can click what software/hardware they use, but that might be extensive!

There are people successfully using 11 with no problems. Why?? Different/better video cards?

I downloaded the Adobe Premiere Pro trial a few days ago, just to see what it was about. Nice program, but I got a crash in that also, and I prefer the more common sense structure of Vegas, probably due to my familiarity with it.

Not sure where to go from here, except backward :(.

Comments

[r]Evolution wrote on 1/28/2012, 2:40 PM
... I did (another) full, clean Win 7-64 install. This time, I loaded only Vegas 11... no plug-ins, no other audio/video software or drivers. The only software added was AVG free, DisplayFusion (to span wallpaper on dual monitors) & Irfanview...
- uuuhh... that means Other Software WAS Installed.

I downloaded Adobe Premiere Pro a few days ago, just to see what it was about. Nice program, but I got a crash in that also, and I prefer the more common sense structure of Vegas, probably due to my familiarity with it.
- If you got Crashes in Premiere too, I would start to think it's your hardware.
- Vegas structure is NOT common sense to me. Premiere, FCP, & Media Composer workflows, although different, are similar in the Source/Monitor, In/Out, Video on Top/Audio on Bottom Interface that is Common Sense to a Trained Linear or Non-Linear Editor.

If Vegas is broken for you; I would suggest, before you get too deep with installing all of your software, that you continue to try out other NLE's -or- buy a Ready Made system that is known to work with Vegas. I'm not sure if Boxx still partners with Vegas) There are quite a few Consumer NLE's that are rock solid with all the features of the big boys. You're using Vegas so that already says you're not collaborating with others where you truly need the uber professional features. If your story and edit is strong, no one, but nerds and geeks like us that want to recite specs and box literature, will care what it was edited on anyways.

My V11 b521 (seems like I get Crash Reporting on exit but rarely during an edit) isn't perfect but it runs pretty solid on my Mac w/ Windows 7 via Bootcamp. Premiere Pro CS5.5 on my PC side is a lot more solid for me than Vegas though.

Once I get NewBlue Titler Pro working solidly, in addition to much needed features, I'll be fairly happy.
rhythmlake wrote on 1/28/2012, 4:15 PM
Thanks for the info. Well, yes, "other software" was installed, but, again, I've used those for ages with Vegas and no problems, so something must have changed on the programming end.

True, there are many other NLE's out there, some very good. Having worked daily in Vegas for a decade, though, and investing a lot of time & $ in it, I hate to give up so easily. AE CS4 is rock solid for me, as is Vegas 9e (well, maybe hardwood solid). But, I do a lot of keying, and like the Boris lightwrap and matte choker , which won't work in 9.

I will say the Ultra keyer in Premiere was quite nice, and an easier workflow than using AE keylight and exporting. I do still prefer the workflow in Vegas over Premiere; little things like being able to right-click on an audio track to select L or R channel vs. having to drop in a "Fill Audio Channel" effect; splitting a clip w/o having to select a new tool, the annoying separate transition window structure in AP, etc., are all just little things that add up. There is a lot I liked about Premiere, too, and it did seem a bit more stable, though not perfect. I won't rule out the switch to it at some point, if nothing changes with Vegas.

I built this computer a couple of years ago specifically around Vegas compatibility, which it has been, up until 11, and some intermittent crashes in 10. Perhaps something has changed with the way 10/11 communicate with my 8600GT... that's my best guess, barring legitimate V bugs.

While omnipotent to many, I've never been a big fan of FCP, either. It does have tenure, and a crapload of aftermarket products for it--there's certainly more work to be had by owning a Mac with FCP, too, but that gets expensive! Still, I love Vegas, when it's not crashing. Thus, my frustration... having to work in 9, gingerly keying in 10 and exporting with alpha back into 9. That doesn't even take into account the wasted $ on 11, so far. The NB Titler, and even the less powerful but upgraded "Insert Text" feature with animation in 11, were both big attractions for me.

I still feel it could be a graphics card issue, maybe combined with some OFX problems, but there's not much else I can attribute it to, other than programming.

?
VidMus wrote on 1/28/2012, 4:45 PM
What you needed to do is test Vegas BEFORE installing AVG and BEFORE using the network.

Then if Vegas worked fine you would install the AVG. If still fine then the network. If not fine then AVG is the problem.

You said you had no problems in the past but then Vegas did not use the GPU in the past either and considering the AVG affects the video it is most likely the cause of both a Vegas and Premiere crash.

If it is not already too late you should have a backup of the clean install without the network and AVG. Otherwise do another clean install and then make a backup of it so you can troubleshoot by eliminating possible causes of problems.
DSCalef wrote on 1/28/2012, 5:26 PM
A few years back I had one program that was crashing all the time. I call the software support for the program and it was suggested to me that I had a display driver or video card problem. I was argumentative in that the video card and drivers had been in the system for a couple of years and no other issues. The support guy gently suggested I update the drivers and if that didn't stop it, get a newer video card with the latest/greatest video features. Thought the guy was nuts.

Long story short, after my frustration subsided and with the problem still there, I replaced the drivers and the crashes subsided, but were still there. I finnally bought a new video card and the problem disappeared.

Later another guy who had been deeper into computers than I said that in his experience, video/display issues were more troublesome than the majority of hardware and most software. I have stopped being mad with software developers and realize that with the number of variations of hardware, in particular the video and drivers, there is a lot they can't control.

I have learned to always be suspicious of video/display drivers and hardware, and it has served me well. The other is cheap memory. Change out the memory in a computer as the easiest and first thing. Sometimes that is all it takes. Then I go for the video issues. In most every instance, I get rid of the problems.

So when most people never have an issue with the software crashing, and a few do, I think video and memory or underpowered computer in general meaning Insufficient power supply and older CPU's and motherboards. Overheating can also be an issue.

I gnash my teeth at people whinning about the terrible software that doesn't work at all. There is something to be said about some platforms that want to give you the whole package, software, and hardware. AVID comes to mind even though you can buy some of the software only.
zmobile wrote on 1/28/2012, 9:31 PM
With regard to the memory comment...

I had done a major upgrade from XP Pro 32bit to Win 7 64bit. Everything seemed stable, so I went ahead and upgraded from Pro 8 to 11. And that's when the random crashes started all the way to BSOD. I thought build 525 would fix it, nope, made it worse. Went back to 411 and got by for a while.

Then I read a thread about not only replacing memory, but testing it first. Ah, I have been there before!

So, I got memtest86 from the web (Google it), tested modules individually and in combinations to extend the range of the address bus on the mother board; found a bad 1 GB module in 20 minutes and replaced it. This also verified it was not a mother board problem. In fact, I replaced them all so, from 3 GB to 8 GB.

Another point to make, is that I went from XP Pro in 32bit mode to Win 7 in 64bit mode. The same with Vegas, 8 in 32bit to 11 in 64bit. Folks, sometimes this is NOT plug and play. You may have to set your BIOS to extend the memory addressing to use that 64bit OS. You have to look carefully at your System in the Control Panel to see that it not only sees you full memory install, but actually has it in service! You don't want to see, x number of GB reserved for any other purpose. See your Resource Monitor that will show you how your memory is being used.

So far, the machine is stable and appears to be a little faster, but too soon to tell and too late in the day to take measurements. I still have to test 411 more, finish the current project, then try the new just released build.

In the old days, the "new" programs were the best memory and CPU testers. They "found" all the weak silicon, so to speak. I guess this law is still true.

So for those that have upgraded in a big jump especially, and you are scratching your collective heads... make sure your hardware really is passing all the tests and replace all the bits that are not. I never thought that would happen to me.

Sometimes, although rare (but this has happened to me once), the mother board may have an issue trying to address or read and write to memory. Just putting in new memory does nothing in this situation, the problem may actually be on the mother board.

Total cost to fix my machine crashing $130 USD, but could have done it for $39.

chuck z
zman Productions
rhythmlake wrote on 2/23/2012, 10:51 AM
Update: Wow... I'm finally experiencing a nice degree of stability!

I did another, complete clean install of Win 7-64, with only critical updates and zero other apps installed. Despite "Never" being selected in the power & screen saver configs, I was experiencing a monitor shutdown every 20 minutes, which I finally traced back to a sub-menu to "turn of hard disks after 20 minutes" and disabled that. I also disabled Indexing on all drives. I defragged and optimized all drives, and made a disk image of C: at this stage, to be able to revert to, if needed.

I then figured it was time, installed V11 b521 and ran it through the paces. No crashes.

Next I installed the latest NBFX Titler Pro... all good.

I then installed Borisfx Continuum Chroma Keyer & Light Rays packages, which were routinely causing crashes in 11, when pushed, and sometimes when not... still stable, and I've done a LOT of keying, pushing, thumping and loading a clip with multiple FX, including a Light Wrap composite... no crashes.

I then updated to the latest nvidia 295.51 beta driver (from 290.53) (Edit: a new one just came out, as well), lather rinse repeat... stable. I've since added in the network, MS Security Essentials AV, Firefox, Quicktime, and VLC Media Player... all stable under pressure, tested before each app install.

I'm going to keep testing a bit more before the next wave of installations, which will include several NewblueFX packages, After Effects CS4, Sound Forge 9, CD & DVD Architect, Smartsound library, Photoshop, etc.

I must say... this is the longest I have gone without a crash, and I am really enjoying working in V11, especially with the titler. My graphics card (EVGA 8600GT 1GB pci-e) is a little outdated and not the greatest, but is being a trooper; I still suspect it being the cause of some crashes in the past, but it will have to do until a more robust card is feasible. I am really hoping the NewblueFX packages (VE1, VEII, LightBlends, and SP) remain stable, as I use them frequently. Previously, a crash would often occur when engaging one, but so would Boris, which is no longer the case.

If I can track down one specific culprit that destabilizes things, I will post back here.

Cautiously optimistic.