Clicks and POPS, Windows2000 and ME. Here is your (an) answer!

Davely wrote on 10/27/2001, 3:04 PM
Equipment: Midiman Delta 10/10, P4, 1.5GHz, Fast Drives, ATI Radeon AGP card...etc. I use all of Sonic Foundry's stuff in my studio.

If you haven't already figured it out..here is some vital info re Win2000 and XP AND Digital Recording. Unlike previous versions of windows, Win2000 and XP CONSOLIDATE ALL PCI slots, USB ports and AGP Video onto 1 Interrupt:IRQ9. THink about that. Go and check your Device manager and take a look at everything that is using IRQ9. Microsoft has done this so we can add more devices than the limited 16 IRQ's that are on standard PC's. Generally, it is not a problem but for high end audio (24 / 96)....It's a problem. (it was for me anyway and my equipment is high end but mainstream.)

Generally, after a computer system has taken up all of the necessary IRQ's that we don't even want to know about (IRQ0 for the system timer, IRQ 14 for the Primary IDE, IRQ13 for the Math co porocesser) there are only a few irq's left. In my case, 5 irqs left. In the OLD days..that meant that i could add 5 more devices to my computer (PCI or otherwise). Microsoft sees this as a barrier, and, they are right. SO...they implimented something called APCI (advanced Config and Power Interface) with HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer). By DEFAULT..Windows loads this upon installation of Win2000. What it does is this: The software inserts itself between your motherboard and Windows 2000 /XP AND...NO MATTER what IRQ you try to set your hardware to, it will "cascade it" on IRQ 9. Unlike windows 95 / 98, you CAN NOT change this in software or hardware..either by assigning an IRQ to the specific PCI slot or changing the IRQ in the DEvice manager. Windows 2000 / XP WILL NOT let you change it.

Again...the reasoning for microsoft to do this is sound. If, for example, a tape drive fails .... the entire computer wont come crashing down because Win2000 is in charge of all of the devices on Interrupt 9.


For me? I had subtle clicks in my recordings and by playbacks would jitter if my waves were being drawn fast or if i moved a window around. I clearly had a conflict between my audio card and my video card...regardless of microsoft telling me that it "shouldn't" be a problem and regardless of Hardware acceleration.

The ONLY way to solve this...(and i mean ONLY) is to RE INSTALL windows 2000. Windows 2000 and XP ARE NOT equipped to re-distribute IRQ's if you are to change the computer type (in device manager) to a STANDARD PC and NOT a APCI Computer. If you change that parameter, the IRQ info is wiped out and when you reboot EVERY PCI card is set to IRQ9 but without micorsoft as the traffic cop. So, you will have what is likely to be the biggest hardware conflict you've ever seen.

To change it you HAVE to re install and during the Hardware Scanning phase (at the beginning of the install) it tells you to press F6 (or F5) to change the hardware config (whatch for it closely) Once you hit the key, you will be given a number of options. CHOOSE STANDARD PC. This will prevent the IRQ9 APCI HAL software from loading and it will give you ALL of your irq's back to you. finish the install and re install your apps and settings.

NOTE 1) This all has to do with Plug-and-Pray so i found myself searching for the original drivers...so collect the drivers for your sound card and video card and have them handy when you a plugging the cards back in.

NOTE 2)Before the install, check your BIOS settings for the PCI slots. I assigned an IRQ for each slot. It was easy...i had 5 slots and 5 irq's. I just wrote them down to keep track.

My system is back up and running now and it works PERFECTLY. It is clean and fast AND...i am not sure if it is the elimination of the software from between the operating system and the hardware or the direct IRQ to my sound card but it sounds better. It is, honestly, a clearer sound.

Comments

Victorious wrote on 10/27/2001, 4:07 PM
that's very handy information...I'm still runnin W98 SE but when I inevitably must switch to Windows XP or whatever new version they come out with, I'll be able to save myself some heartache...thanks...
PipelineAudio wrote on 10/27/2001, 4:13 PM
How do you do "standard PC " when you have dual processors? I do that and it says I have only one CPU
FadeToBlack wrote on 10/27/2001, 4:20 PM
pfarrell wrote on 10/28/2001, 9:52 PM
Thank you!
This fixed all sorts of problems that I was having with Vegas Audio 2h and my delta 1010.

I recommend that you have two copies of Windows 2000
on your hard disk anyway, so the reinstallation was not too bad -- only took about 5 hours. The biggest pain was getting the W2K service packs, and directX installs, so that Vegas would install cleanly.

But now all the video/click/distortion that was constant is gone!

Thanks a ton.
Pat
Davely wrote on 10/29/2001, 10:35 AM
PCI Steering. You are right...but go ahead and remove a device (which is in a pci slot) from your device manager, shut your computer down, restart the computer and change the irq for that slot (in the bios) to anything you like, then go ahead and restart windows. Your operating system will see the new device and even acknowlede the irq...until it reboots to complete the install. When it comes back up....you get IRQ 9 Win2000's APCI system drivers will intercept it

PIPELINE AUDIO guy... Dual processors? I really don't know what to tell you on that one. I remember seeing a dual PC choice but i think it was with the APCI setting. Let me know if you figure it out. That may be a trial-and-error thing.
JoeD wrote on 10/30/2001, 5:00 AM
Yes, it is better to do a setup as "standard PC"...but it has nothing to do with your "clicking in your Delta 1010.
Where did you get this info from...that f-ing idiotic Delta forum?
Those kids are morons...period.

I have a delta 1010 (two in fact), and it's the DRIVER the Devs at Maudio are releasing that is the main cause of all the crackling we read about. It causes sporadic and intermitent crackling plain and simple. Doesn't have to do with Win2K ACPI installs (but try it if you like).

I'm glad you crackles went away, but it was more likely blind luck (and I bet you're going to hear that crackling again one day. Sorry...but I promise).

delta driver 4.1.22.27s are the best as for no crackling. They aren't WDMs though. MME's
Note: if you use Cubase (sorry btw), then teh ASIOs are really good too.

To add to this, let's shut down some other bullshit as for the delta:

- deltas CAN share devices...but it can depend on what you're sharing with. Stick to sharing with the NIC...avoid the video card.

- Deltas on VIA systems can work just as well as on Intel based boards. Again, the incredibly lame and disorganized delta wdm drivers are the root of the cause in 90% of the cases.
I heard this in every post on that backwards Delta forum.

Yes, I do run a hardware lab...and you can bet your ass I've tested the Delta on so many systems it'll make your ears bleed.

joed
pfarrell wrote on 11/6/2001, 11:57 PM
>>delta driver 4.1.22.27s are the best as for
>>no crackling.

So you're saying the MAudio hasn't come up with better drivers in 7 months? Sheesh....

Pat
PipelineAudio wrote on 11/7/2001, 1:15 AM
Just to clear things up the ACPI issue CAn cause crackles and pops if theres an IRQ conflict.

More likely causes of crackles and pos though are :

Having a Midiman/Maudio card in your PC and believing their tech support

Or having an echo card in your PC that takes its cues from the windows mixer...NO JOKE...pan an mp3 in winamp hard left then reopen an audio app and watch al your audio come out one side!!! Im agine if you sent a DAT to the mastering lab offcenter!

nonsensory wrote on 11/9/2001, 4:47 PM
Hi everybody. I'm new here.

This problem can be changed without having to reinstall the OS:

1) Open Device Manager
2) Double click Computer
3) Right click Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC
4) Click Properties
5) Click Driver tab
6) Click Update Driver button
7) Click Next button
8) Click Display a list... option button
9) Click Show all hardware... option button
10) Select Standard PC
11) Click Next button
12) Click Yes button
13) Click Next button
14) Click Finish button
15) Restart your system

When your operating system loads, none of your drivers will be functioning (ie 16 bit graphics). Your system will begin detecting every device over again in a similar way to when you are installing for the first time. After detecting and reinstalling every device, you will need to restart once again. When you boot up this time, everything should be normal and if you check our IRQ's they should not be grouped together on IRQ 9. I have done this many times without a problem, but if you do experience problems, I might suggest removing some cards while trying this.

Hope that helps.