Client Issues, What Do You Suggest?

Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/5/2007, 7:34 AM

Just delivered 100 DVDs to a client yesterday.

The first disc I hand-delivered (for final approval). The client popped it into his old DVD player. It wouldn't play. He popped into his laptop and it played flawlessly. The disc was approved and he ordered 100 copies.

I get an e-mail from his assistant. She tried the first five discs. They wouldn't play. The client told his assistant to contact me to come get the discs. I replied to her e-mail saying:

"Sorry, to hear about your player problem. The discs I tested played just fine and we have three different machines here. You'll have to try the discs on various machines, as not all players were created equal. Older players especially have problems playing DVD-R discs. For example, the first disc I brought to [client] would not play in his DVD player, but it did play in his laptop.

"Unfortunately, there is absolutely no way to know what the discs will be played on once they've been sent out. We have no control over that, and I did make [client] aware of that the day I delivered that first disc."

I've not had a problem like this before. I'm curious to know how any of you might handle this situation, as I am certain it is not over.

Thanks!

Comments

RBartlett wrote on 9/5/2007, 7:50 AM

As you provided -R, you could offer +R. Consider the Book-Type = DVD-ROM that is free to edit on some burner apps with +R media.
This should entail an additional unit charge and the customer should be the one left with the disc that doesn't work in this specific example.

If you used a high street brand disc, you could try a duplicator brand like TY.

Also, you could offer a replication job on the original hundred. Normally I believe replication only costs in at 300+ units. Besides, customers being what they so often are, you may have this client feeling that they've already paid. However you could always see if they'll pay for this to be done if it saves them from any troubles with their own customers.

Truth be told, this has always been an issue in the burner world. I had the impression that these problems were tailing off. As you point out Jay, most folks have more than one player or means of play.

This nonesense with DVD-Video has put me off the whole idea of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray from a burn/rewrite perspective. I'm keen on the idea of solid state delivery formats but we'll have to wait for this to become cheap enough for hours of content at a time.

For videographers, I'd consider always having these types of issues cleared up before being contract by an agreement. Then if the only option is to deliver on VHS, YouTube or your own secure streaming or web server then you can perhaps more easily justify such additional charges when you hit such as bump as this.

farss wrote on 9/5/2007, 7:59 AM

Were these authored with the latest version of DVDA 4?
There was a compatibility problem with it, it was supposedly fixed but the gurus on the DVDA forum were still a bit uncertain about it. PGCEdit still complains about an unreferenced audio track. I've been ignoring the problem and haven't heard of a spike in complaints from my clients but might be wise to make really certain.

Aside from that I've had much the same thing happen recently. Between the time the client signed off and I gave him the dubs his player had died, wouldn't even play pressed disk. Of course that he only discovered after I'd had a sleepless night.

One suggestion, if there's enough money in the job throw in a cheap DVD player that you know works, they're down to $20 around here.

Bob.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/5/2007, 8:07 AM

RB, this job was sent out to a duplicating house. I haven't the time to sit and feed 100 discs into a singles slot drive.

Bob, the master disc was made with an older version of DVDA. No problems to date. I'm certain it's a player issue (they had a very old player!).

The problem is these discs will be sent out to salesmen. One can only hope they have newer players at their disposal.

Yeah, I picked up a couple a while back for $19.95 each, and they play just about anything you put in them, with the exception of a grilled cheese sandwich.

The question really is: How do you tell the client it's time to shell a few dollars and upgrade their disc player?

RalphM wrote on 9/5/2007, 8:22 AM

Jay,

If I put myself in the position of the client, I would find your reply (though fair and accurate) to be a brush-off of my concerns. Your client is concerned that he will distribute these discs and have to deal with dissatisfaction regarding their playability. You are correct, but your client is unhappy.

One possible approach is to ask the client to include a note with the DVDs that solicits a return communication regarding any playability issues. That return communication would include brand and model number of the unsuccessful player. In the event that the referenced problem players have a known incompatibility, suggest a DVD+R or VHS tape. My guess is that there will be very few problems, and your client will see you as someone who gives good support and value. (That means repeat business).

Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/5/2007, 8:48 AM

Ralph, I understand and agree with you. However, as I pointed out, I went over this, in great detail in person and explained the old/new player issues, before the order was placed.

It's not a disc issue. The discs play just fine, just not in their old outdated equipment. And VHS is not an option.

Grazie wrote on 9/5/2007, 9:18 AM

Ask your dupe house what coverage/range of DVD players they guarantee? Your delivery contract is with the client. Your duping contract is with your dupe houes. If your dupe house is providing you with enough confidence, then buy your client a NEW $30 player and call it a day.

My Sister's Grundig player will NOT play my work. I can go to Comet, PC World, Curry's and so on and play my DVDs - no problem.

Digging one out from under is always a bind. The thing to do is to do it graciously. Buy 'em a Cheapo DVD player - but make sure it works on that one first!!

And yes, have a proviso on what your dupe house tells you, written into the contract.

The best I can think of

Grazie

TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/5/2007, 9:30 AM

I haven't been in THAT situation before as I've sent out hundreds of self-burned disks with no issues but I have explained to people, many many times, about the quirks of burned DVD's. I even burned a "test disk" that I give out to people to try. I normally don't even duplicate until I know, 100%, that a DVD will work in their player. This is how a typical conservation goes:

me: Not all burned DVD's work in all players. Old players, DVD+VHS Combo's & DVD settop burners seem to have issues.
them: oh, I know it works, I've played burned DVD's on there before.
me: Well, try out this disc & tell me if it works.

They then try it & call me back. I used to have two discs, both with the software the DVD was authored & burned with: one for DVDA 3 auth/burn & one with DVDA3 auth/Nero burn. The nero one seemed to have less issues.

I've even told people that if they don't have a newer (less then 4 years old) DVD player it may not work.

Not much you can do really... maybe buy them a player.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/5/2007, 9:43 AM

Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/5/2007, 9:49 AM

... one for DVDA 3 auth/burn & one with DVDA3 auth/Nero burn.

Ah! Herein lies the REAL issue. We, the producers (nor the clients), shouldn't have to be dealing with this crap. There should be one STANDARD that all software, discs, burners, and players have to meet.

If that were the case, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

RalphM wrote on 9/5/2007, 10:05 AM

Jay,

I think that some of the compatibility issues will come from old players that were designed before the recordable DVD specs were finalized.

The standards are now well known, and the vendors will state on the box what types of DVDs will play. Technical issues are a minor part of this problem - it's your customer's fears that need to be put to rest. Chances are very good that there will be only a few recipients who will not have some way to play the discs.

Paul Mead wrote on 9/5/2007, 11:56 AM

Have you run PCGEDIT on your prepared disk to see if it complains? I do that for every project before I duplicate it. Should I have to do that? Hell no! But that is the reality of the current world; to avoid hassles you double check what DVDA has created so that you don't have to convince someone to replace a player that works for every disk they have except the one you gave them.

There have been a few discussions in the DVDA forum about how new LG players are unable to play DVDA created disks. As I recall, it turns out that there was a grey area in the standard that was interpreted one way by DVDA and another way by LG, resulting in LG not being able to play the disks. As alluded to in an earlier reply, the newer version of DVDA is supposed to correct that problem. If you don't have a newer DVDA you can have PCGEDIT fix it for you.

You may be able to rightfully blame the players, but that won't make the customer any happier.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/5/2007, 1:08 PM

It's all taken care of.

Heard back from the client's assistant. She was attempting to play the discs on a older computer with a DVD drive. She took the discs into the conference room, where the newer DVD player is used, and tried them there... voilà!

Now, she's as happy as a coon in corn field.

Thanks for the input!

Dan Sherman wrote on 9/5/2007, 5:19 PM

Thank goodness Jay!
That sort of thing gives me the shakes.
Been fortunate so far with runs of up to 25 hundred, no returns.
Spending the extra for replication over duplication ensures pretty much 100 per cent playability.
But most companies won't replicate fewer that a thousand disc.
I just did 130 for a consumer type low-budget job, my 40th high school reunion.
It's the last time I burn DVDs one by one and feed them into a printer one boring disc at a time.
Torture!

vicmilt wrote on 9/5/2007, 6:10 PM

Jay -

It's very stressful - the situation that you just went through.

Somehow it just doesn't seem fair to me that we write, produce, direct, edit and mix - and then have to fall prey to technical glitches.

I personally would have handled it in the following way:

Dear Client,

I'm sorry that you are having difficulty playing your discs. We have tested them thoroughly and found that they play perfectly on our test machines..

However, you should be aware that this problem is a fault of the technolgy, which as you can guess, is growing in a daily manner. The fact is that your discs will play in over 90% of the machines around, and in virtually everyone of the newer models. With the cost of DVD players hovering around $40 dollars, it might be time to upgrade.

if you have a concern as to the playability of your discs in Every One of your clients machines, I suggest replicating the discs. This it the method used by Hollywood and virtually guarantees playing success. We have not found it necessary, in general, to do this kind of duplication (called "Replication"). The fact is that it costs no more than the technology that our duplicating house uses.

It does entail an entirely different process, however. While the cost per disc will remain the same, you will be obligated to buy your discs in 1,000 unit lots.

I hope this helps, and will be happy to speak to you further about the situation.

Most sincerely,

TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/5/2007, 6:26 PM

Graham and HF, you don't understand. If it were one DVD player, that would not be an issue (I would buy them one, and have do so in the past). It's going to be 100 DVD players scattered all over the US!

Still doesn't mean it will work in any of their players! Like you said, she didn't try it in a DVD player but an old computer so you wearn't told the whole story in the first place.

Old players don't always play replicated discs either. I had a DVD player that wouldn't play my Matrix discs & wouldn't play "Aliens Disk 1" out of the 9 disc set. go figure. :/

Dan Sherman wrote on 9/5/2007, 6:44 PM

I've had clients play DVDs on ancient machines and call in a fluster saying the discs are no good.
I once had a person call to say the disc didn't play in her machine because it's an "Apple".
Vic's letter or something similiar is good information for end users who may not have a clue through no fauolt of their own, but for lack of knowledge.
Might even be good to include a disclaimer in shipments of DVDs just to make the client aware of potential problems that are usually playback machine related.