Comments

ushere wrote on 7/2/2010, 4:02 AM
as oft stated hereabouts - .mxf
Cliff Etzel wrote on 7/2/2010, 7:56 AM
Here's my recommendation - avoid MXF as an intermediate for editing.

I"ve tested and confirmed this option works very well: Download AVID's DNxHD Codec and MPEG Stream Clip.

Use Mpeg Streamclip to encode your clips to to one of the various flavors of progressive codecs (I 've been using 110mb 10 bit 720p for an upcoming DOC I'm editing) They play smooth as silk in the latest 9.0e version - both 32 and 64bit versions. I tested with nesting 4 veg files with random clips, FX, titles, etc. Rendered a 35 minute timeline consisting of those 4 veg files and the results were stunning.

Peoples aversion to using intermediates is unfathomable - if you can't afford Cineform, go the AVID DNxHD route. The files are larger, but they play back without issue - at least for me.

YMMV

Cliff Etzel
Solo Video Journalist | Micro Documentary Film Maker
bluprojekt | SoloVJ Blog
--------
Desktop: OS: Win7 x64 | CPU: Q9400 | Mobo: Intel DG33TL | 8GB G.Skill Dual Channel RAM | Boot/Apps Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Audio Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Video Source: WD Black 2x750GB RAID 0 | Video Card: nVidia GeForce GT 220 1GB

Laptop: Dell Latitude D620 | C2D 2.0Ghz | 4GB G.Skill RAM | OS: Vista x64 | Primary HD: WD 320GB 7200RPM | Video HD: WD 250GB 5400RPM
musicvid10 wrote on 7/2/2010, 8:06 AM
Vegas Pro 8 and earlier includes a Cineform codec. Even if you use 9 for most of your work, it is good to keep an earlier version on your machine just for that.
PerroneFord wrote on 7/2/2010, 9:01 AM
IT only works up to HDV resolution though. And it breaks if you install a newer reader because the CFHD.dll file gets updated.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/2/2010, 11:01 AM
Let me see if I have this right... you bought at $1,500+ camera and you won't buy a $99 piece of software to help you edit the files?? My advice... buy Cineform Neo Scene and stop wasting time looking for an alternate solution that won't be as good.

~jr
johnwhy wrote on 7/3/2010, 1:44 PM
johnnyroy

Correct this has been spent on the camera which is my primary work tool. i have ONE video to edit so 129euros (not $99) equates to a far greater expense pro rata than the camera... It doesn't seem unfair to me to ask if Vegas Pro has a codec sufficient for
working with this file type

JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/4/2010, 6:03 AM
> It doesn't seem unfair to me to ask if Vegas Pro has a codec sufficient for working with this file type

Nope it doesn't seem unfair and up until Vegas Pro 9.0, Sony shipped Cineform with the product because it's the best tool for the job. I don't know why they stopped with version 9 but I bought Neo Scene before that because I needed to use it in After Effects as well.

Last time I checked the euro was worth more than the dollar and videoguys.com sells Cineform Neo Scene for $99 USD so if you pay with a credit card, you credit card company should translate that into euros for you. As of today 99.00 USD = 78.97 EUR. If you are going to use this camera for all of your work it's a worthwhile investment.

Sony does have the SONY YUV codec which produces rather large files. You can also install the free Huffyuv or Lagarith codecs and use them. Both are lossless. That's it for intermediaries.

If this is for one job and not a permanent workflow then you can convert to MXF (as some have suggested ) or even to HDV and have a smooth editing workflow. These formats won't hold up to multiple re-renders like an intermediary will but if your not doing a lot of post processing they should be fine.

~jr
johnwhy wrote on 7/5/2010, 8:34 AM

thanks johnnyroy that's a really helpful answer...!

One last question is the videoguys cineform a download? (i'm assuming it is)
The more I read the more cineform seems to be the answer as you say it's not
a huge expense all things considered... eeek
LReavis wrote on 7/5/2010, 9:52 AM
actually, PicVideo works well as an intermediate and costs only U.S. $40 if downloaded from the European website (search this forum for "PicVideo" for the exact URL). I use it more than Cineform, for it encodes faster and produces smaller files (if the quality slider is set for 19 instead of 20, the 4:4:4 color space option).

However, I checked for re-encode quality and after 6 generations, Cineform looks slightly better. If I were to buy only one - either PicVideo or Cineform - I'd get Cineform NeoScene (like others, I use it for other video apps in addition to Vegas). Moreover, for long, complex projects, I try to avoid using multiple codecs - and Cineform is the best all-round codec available; so I try to encode all clips to Cineform for those projects.
drmathprog wrote on 7/6/2010, 7:35 AM
Cliff;

I'm trying to compare the Neoscene approach with the MPEG Stream Clip/DNxHD approach. I've installed DNxHD and MPEG Stream Clip, but I can't figure out how to batch render my AVCHD files to something usable in Vegas 9. Does this approach not support AVCHD? If it does, can you offer some pointers on how to create some useful intermediaries using Stream CLip and AVID DNxHD?

Thanks
John_Cline wrote on 7/6/2010, 12:44 PM
"I use [Cineform] for other video apps in addition to Vegas"

Good point, you can't get an MXF file in or out of Virtual Dub. Since Cineform has both VFW and Direct Show components, you can use it in virtually anything. However, there is a level shift for which you have to watch out when moving Cineform files between applications.
Cliff Etzel wrote on 7/6/2010, 1:08 PM
With my testing, it appears that MPEG Streamclip, only reads m2t's and .MOV files (it will read AVI's and such, but output is more or less MOV). The only solution is either Cineform NeoScene or using TEMPEnc and rendering out to DNxHD MOV files. I prefer using DNxHD as I can resize and deinterlace at the same time to 720p. Neoscene leaves you at the native PAR of the clips you are encoding - you can't resize the way you can with the DNxHD option. The Wavelet compression of Cineform is slightly better than the DCT of DNxHD, but I like the fact I have a true cross platform codec with DNxHD intermediates.

The major challenge I see is if you ever need to refer to original timecode from the MTS clips (in my case, m2t), they will not line up with your encoded intermediates. I have tested this extensively and it is reproducible with clips from various cameras.

Either one of those utilities is a wash price wise so it depends on your particular needs.

Cliff Etzel
Solo Video Journalist | Micro Documentary Film Maker
bluprojekt | SoloVJ Blog
--------
Desktop: OS: Win7 x64 | CPU: Q9400 | Mobo: Intel DG33TL | 8GB G.Skill Dual Channel RAM | Boot/Apps Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Audio Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Video Source: WD Black 2x750GB RAID 0 | Video Card: nVidia GeForce GT 220 1GB

Laptop: Dell Latitude D620 | C2D 2.0Ghz | 4GB G.Skill RAM | OS: Vista x64 | Primary HD: WD 320GB 7200RPM | Video HD: WD 250GB 5400RPM