Codecs change to Apple Pro Res?

Former user wrote on 3/24/2021, 3:49 AM

I have video footage recorded in the following codecs (see below). There is a piece of software called Eyeframe Converter wherein I can re-encode to Apple Pro Res. In other NLE software, it is a good idea to do this because my recording format is compressed and uncompressed (apparently) reduces stress. However, Vegas Pro (I use VP 16, edit) seems to perform well. Is it still a good idea to re-encode?

General

P1160139.MOV

Format :MPEG-4

Format profile :QuickTime

Codec ID :qt 2011.07 (qt /pana)

File size :231 MiB

Duration :39 s 39 ms

Overall bit rate mode :Variable

Overall bit rate :49.7 Mb/s

Encoded date :UTC 2017-07-24 19:06:08

Tagged date :UTC 2011-05-15 15:03:49

PANA :DMC-GH3

 

Video

ID :1

Format :AVC

Format/Info :Advanced Video Codec

Format profile :High@L4.1

Format settings :CABAC / 2 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC :Yes

Format settings, Reference frames :2 frames

Codec ID :avc1

Codec ID/Info :Advanced Video Coding

Duration :39 s 39 ms

Bit rate mode :Variable

Bit rate :48.0 Mb/s

Maximum bit rate :49.2 Mb/s

Width :1 920 pixels

Height :1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio :16:9

Frame rate mode :Constant

Frame rate :23.976 (24000/1001) FPS

Color space :YUV

Chroma subsampling :4:2:0

Bit depth :8 bits

Scan type :Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) :0.965

Stream size :223 MiB (97%)

Encoded date :UTC 2017-07-24 19:06:08

Tagged date :UTC 2011-05-15 15:03:49

Color range :Full

Color primaries :BT.709

Transfer characteristics :BT.709

Matrix coefficients :BT.709

Codec configuration box :avcC

 

Audio

ID :2

Format :PCM

Format settings :Big / Signed

Codec ID :twos

Duration :39 s 39 ms

Bit rate mode :Constant

Bit rate :1 536 kb/s

Channel(s) :2 channels

Channel layout :L R

Sampling rate :48.0 kHz

Bit depth :16 bits

Stream size :7.15 MiB (3%)

Encoded date :UTC 2017-07-24 19:06:08

Tagged date :UTC 2011-05-15 15:03:49

 

Other

ID :3

Type :Time code

Format :QuickTime TC

Duration :39 s 39 ms

Bit rate mode :Constant

Frame rate :23.976 (24000/1001) FPS

Time code of first frame :01:06:34:00

Time code, striped :Yes

Encoded date :UTC 2017-07-24 19:06:08

Tagged date :UTC 2011-05-15 15:03:49

 

Comments

set wrote on 3/24/2021, 4:10 AM

If you already able to use the footage natively right away without conversion, and depends on how deep you do the 'color manipulation', then I think it's alright.

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RogerS wrote on 3/24/2021, 4:23 AM

It just looks like constant framerate AVC. HD at this data rate shouldn't stress a modern system. I would use it natively in Vegas.

Former user wrote on 3/24/2021, 4:36 AM

I forgot to say it is an H264 codec, usually stresses out anything, apparently. It is great if that is no longer the case.

RogerS wrote on 3/24/2021, 4:55 AM

AVC= h264. This was cutting edge in 2012, but graphics cards and CPUs can easily decode such footage (with exceptions like really high resolutions, bit rates, bit depths or high compression). I never transcoded HD h264 with my old (2011) laptop and Vegas and certainly don't with a more modern system.

The missing information is what your CPU is, and if you are struggling to play it back you can also click on the media in Vegas and "create video proxy."

Former user wrote on 3/24/2021, 5:06 AM

It is also a matter of best practices, no?

RogerS wrote on 3/24/2021, 6:54 AM

In 2021? Transcoding everything is an optional step or done for troubleshooting.

Back a decade ago we were transcoding to Cineform or the like. AVCHD files were giving computers of the time headaches.These days AVC is standard with hardware decoding built into integrated GPUs and regular GPUs and computing power has greatly progressed making it easy to edit such files directly.

If you want to only edit ProRes and have disk space for it and time for conversion, it's perfectly acceptable.

Former user wrote on 5/26/2021, 7:02 PM

@RogerS I have discovered that yes, in 2021, even if you have a more powerful G/CPU, more and faster RAM and faster drives, H264 (720p footage @ 60 fps, no less) will bring Vegas Pro to it's knees.I used Adobe CC back in 2013 and was able to edit with Premiere Pro, but for whatever reason, Vegas Pro cannot handle this in 2021. You are incorrect. I have re-encoded my footage to Pro-res444 and already, the performance is much improved.

RogerS wrote on 5/26/2021, 8:05 PM

It may be system dependent, but that just isn't the case anymore with the advent of hardware decoding. Since 2012 I used HD 1080p footage without transcoding or proxies, and since my 2017 computer upgrade used 4K 24p footage without transcoding or proxies. I get full framerate playback with the laptop in my signature.

There are exceptions with certain heavily compressed h.264 formats (Vegas doesn't like smart phone VFR footage and some drone/action cam).

Vegas performance with ProRes dramatically increased recently so it's a very good option.

You might try resetting Vegas if you have performance issues.

Former user wrote on 5/26/2021, 9:14 PM

@RogerS What do you mean "system dependent"? I had AMD tech support (my CPU manufacturer) go over every facet of my machine to ensure functionality, drivers, and proper updates. My ticket with Magix was almost two weeks ago, they have yet to get back to me. It is a bad idea to relegate all support to forums. A software company needs to get feedback from users and address concerns, otherwise sell it to another group. Re-conding to pro-res lets me edit footage with less concerns of crashes, freeze-ups and little or no preview available for my footage. With re-encoding, I can preview at full resolution, still fine.

RogerS wrote on 5/26/2021, 10:04 PM

System dependent means the environment of hardware and software. It make a huge difference. You have not stated what your CPU, GPU are or anything else about your system.

For example choosing the Pro/Enterprise driver over Adrenalin has made a big stability difference for other AMD GPU users.

I don't understand what the problem is as this thread was initially about best practices and whether it was necessary to transcode everything. With Resolve 17 (not studio) I'd say yes, transcode 4K AVC to get smooth playback. With Vegas 15-18, I'd say no it isn't necessary in most cases (phones, DJI/GoPro may be the exception).

"However, Vegas Pro (I use VP 16, edit) seems to perform well." (with AVC)
So does AVC no longer perform well? What went wrong that required a support ticket?

Happy to test a sample of your footage here, but we used a GH3 and G85 for work and I always edited it natively, usually at best/full.

My suggestion would be to reset Vegas and clear the cache by holding down control and shift when you click to start up. Don't let go until it prompts you to clear the cache. This can help with unexplained performance drops.

Last changed by RogerS on 5/26/2021, 10:06 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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VEGAS Pro 21.208
VEGAS Pro 22.239

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark (works with VP 16+): https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark (works with VP 20+): https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Former user wrote on 5/27/2021, 2:05 AM

@RogerS I have an Nvidia card with studio drivers. AMD parsed my desktop and found everything in order. Now, I know DaVinci Resolve (for example) has a specific setting to enable H264 decoding. If you do not check it and are editing H264, you get problems. My intent on posting on Vegas forum was for someone to perhaps write, "You are editing in H264, that is a problem in Vegas. Re-encode." or "Please push the 'decode h264' button" I edited in Premiere, Light Works, Vegas, among other programs and I noticed that re-generally encoding solves a lot of problems. Performance is currently not an issue because I now have bigger files, but my computer edits through them quite well (preview at full res) and instead of hating Vegas, I now like it, again. Vegas used to be one of those programs that could handle H264, no problem. This is not the case lately.

What went wrong that required a support ticket? That I was using Vegas 18 and my footage, which came from a camera and attendant codec I got in 2013, which I was able to edit with Premiere Pro back then on a far more modest machine--was now impossible with an exponentially powerful machine in 2021. That other NLE's could handle the footage and not Vegas. That my machine was parsed by technicians who said, "we checked it, it more than meets minimum requirements. The problem is not your machine. Your OS install is recent, it is close to baseline performance, which is what you want' etc. etc..

I was going to go with Vegas 16, but someone mentioned that cut n paste between programs is not exact and did not want to lose the work I already put into edits.

I will not reset Vegas, the edits work now. But I would still want tech support to have a look and ensure that my footage, any footage from my camera can be edited. It is a drag to have to re-encode each time.

RogerS wrote on 5/27/2021, 2:26 AM

The free version of Resolve doesn't have hardware decoding enabled. You need Resolve Studio for that which I do not have. Creating optimized media take a long time but is a workaround.

My intent on posting on Vegas forum was for someone to perhaps write, "You are editing in H264, that is a problem in Vegas. Re-encode."

Sorry, but the experienced users here don't agree with that. There is no general problem with h264 in Vegas. You are looking for validation or support?

I was going to go with Vegas 16

I think you are not telling us the whole story. In the first post you stated you were using Vegas Pro 16 Edit. So you are actually editing on VP 18 (a trial version?)

Resetting Vegas has zero effect on projects or files. You won't lose any edits. It reinitializes the program, clears the cache and resets settings to defaults. That can be especially helpful for upgrades in place where one version of VP worked fine but the next one does not (16-18).

I have a project here with 300 4K Panasonic G85 files. It works fine in VP 18.525. HD files from the GH3 shouldn't pose any general problem though you are welcome to post an example via google drive or another service if you want others to test with their machines.

We're not tech support, so telling us what you want tech support to do doesn't do anything.

Former user wrote on 5/27/2021, 3:26 AM

@RogerS It does not matter what version Resolve requires to enable H264 decoding, the fact is there is a button you need to click to get it to work. That was the nature of my question. And yes, you are not tech support, which is why you are the last person I want to give machine specs so you can wander in and tweak willy nilly. The point is for someone to say that what I want to do requires a new setting enabled or disabled or to change the parameters of footage. No such comments are forthcoming. That's fine. You say it *should* work on Vegas, and when it does not, I know there is a deeper problem. At that point, before disabling half my system, I would check with tech support. To answer your query, posting here is one of the steps I take before going to tech support. I will let you fondle, but before you went further, I want some medical tests. ; - )