Color Grading - dysfunctional new tool?!

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 2/14/2020, 3:44 PM

Hi,

First serious project using VP17. I need to perform some serious color grading so I'm trying to use this new tool for the first time. The operation is strange with erroneous behaviors... Is this new tool really supposed to work - or still at some experimental stage?

- Selecting the tickmark on the track FX (color grading) maker the previewed image to just jump a frame backward, the playhead staying in the same position...

- selecting the tool makes the underlying track fully visible in the preview even if it should not be possible since the color grading is set of the topmost track.

- playing the timeline makes the video frames to jump back and forward - seemingly randomly.

TIHS RENDERS THIS TOOL TOTALLY USELESS.

The project properties are set to the same at the video on the timeline, and that is HD @50fps progressive PAL ( MPEG-2 in an MTS wrapper) from a Panasonic 3-sensor cam... My WIN10 Pro 64bit computer has no shortcomings and has excellent specs (14 - cores i9, 64GB DDR4, twin GTX1080Ti etc).

This is the last straw. Magix introduces new tools that are totally useless and not properly tested before release? It would not be the first time. These tools look professional, they promise lots of functionality, but the truth is totally something else...

I skipped VP16 - but thought I should give still VP17 a chance. I'm naturally running on the latest 387 build. I transferred to Davinci Resolve more than 1.5 years ago and that tool is very professional. I feel bad for Vegas since it has one of the best GUI's and for an old audio fart like me, the interface is the most intuitive I have ever used in a video NLE suite. Been a Vegas user since version 6 so I know this program in and out. Saddened that the quality under the hood is still so bad - or mediocre. Reading this forum it seems that the story continues - mostly discussions about how to avoid pitfalls and work around known problems that are there from release to release. Like how to turn off the GPU rendering and setting preview RAM to zero. Goosh... these remedies have been going on for years...I wonder how productive such fiddling can be in the long run...Well if you are a hobby user and have do deadlines for projects, maybe some persons gets some kicks out of such fiddling. I will gladly load bug updates when they will become available. How they behave determines Vega's future in my toolbox. Surely not buying VP18 anymore with this experience...

Cheers,

Christian

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535 | Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver | Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10 | Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

Comments

Grazie wrote on 2/14/2020, 4:13 PM

@Christian de Godzinsky - Sorry, but I can't repro your issues. I've been bashin' the New Toolset and I get creamy smooth playback.

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 2/14/2020, 4:32 PM

Thanx G for your sympathy :)

This IS the root of problems - new tools work with some combinations of files and/or settings - but not with others. This tells me that the testing methodology is really not good enough - or severely lacking at Magix. I fully understand that they cannot test all combinations, but this is plain vanilla stuff... Nothing extraordinary... Nothing special.. Just color correction and video playback is totally haywire...

Guess what - turning off the GPU acceleration seems to fix these glitches!!!! I think it's finally time for Magix to remove from Vegas marketing the b*****it claim about GPU accelerated SW. It seems that more than 90% of all fixes are related to turning OFF the much-hyped GPU rendering! This is a no go - since doing that brings the playback to a crawl when I add for example any NeatVideo filters on the clips. NOt even that. Trying to playback two HD streams (without the GPU) makes Vegas choke and drop the playback framerate...If you want to use Vegas: its either glitches an unusability, or slowly crawling forward with a non-real-time preview... Neither is acceptable in a modern NLE.

Christian

Last changed by Christian de Godzinsky on 2/14/2020, 4:35 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535 | Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver | Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10 | Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

Grazie wrote on 2/14/2020, 4:49 PM

@Christian de Godzinsky - GPU Accel is Permanently ON.

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 2/14/2020, 5:05 PM

Ok. Glad it works for you. But this at least proved that switching the GPU on/off runs havoc the project when using the new color grading feature... Go figure. And it should not be me struggling with this, it should be Maxic struggling with fixing it...

My system specs are, if of any value:

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535
Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver
Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10
External Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

Last changed by Christian de Godzinsky on 2/14/2020, 5:10 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535 | Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver | Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10 | Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

Grazie wrote on 2/14/2020, 5:11 PM

nVid Drivs

Mine: 441.66 - STUDIO

Yours: 442.19 - Is this the latest OR the Gamer?

Anything there for you?

 

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 2/14/2020, 5:24 PM

This is actually the latest Studion version (info from their download page):

NVIDIA STUDIO DRIVER
Version:442.19
Release Date:2020.2.3
Operating System:Windows 10 64-bit
Language:English (US)
File Size:529.4 MB

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535 | Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver | Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10 | Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

Grazie wrote on 2/14/2020, 5:34 PM

Had you tried that earlier one?

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 2/14/2020, 9:04 PM

You did mentioned you transferred to Davinci Resolve more than 1.5 years ago !

fr0sty wrote on 2/14/2020, 11:55 PM

Nobody else around here is having these issues, so to rule out user error, make sure you watch this first.

 

fred-w wrote on 2/15/2020, 2:42 AM

Color grading, as "welcome an advance" as it might be, is not ready for prime time, IMHO, not off to auspicious start, but let's give it some time.


But please, every time someone weighs in, let's not just "shoot the messenger" -because we're not in 100% agreement with that particular message.

matthias-krutz wrote on 2/15/2020, 3:32 AM

A big problem with Color Grading is the large amount of data that is written into the history to be available for an undo. This leads to slow down very quickly. At the moment it only helps to clean up the Edit History frequently. Since I found this out, I have been able to use CG quite well.

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 2/15/2020, 6:33 AM

fred-w, its not about shooting the messenger or not agreeing with them, nothing is wrong with highlighting the shortcomings in the software (that is welcome)........ But its when its followed up by hidden expletives, insults to the Vegas team and rude comparisons!

Dexcon wrote on 2/15/2020, 6:41 AM

@Steve_Rhoden … +1. But disappointingly that seems to be the norm these days in the Twitter age where the centries old politeness/respect filters have fairly much been abandoned.

D7K wrote on 2/15/2020, 9:27 AM

Here is the thing, anyone who argues from the point of taking a single reference point and expanding it to a general assumption is arguing like sophistry. When you take a specific instance and make a broad generalization you are doing yourself and others a disservice. In the world of computers there are so many permutations and combinations to physically preclude testing every setup. To come here and say another software is better than Vegas based on the information presented by the OP is nothing more than trolling. Most people are sensitive to having their own biased assumptions challenged with facts and analysis. This is why posts like this get hammered.

alifftudm95 wrote on 2/15/2020, 9:42 AM

VEGAS should be aware with this problem. The software seems drifting away from actual "professional" uses.

RogerS wrote on 2/15/2020, 7:09 PM

Can anyone verify this problem with grading as a track Fx? (I didn't think it even worked at a track level)

Did the OP file a support request with Magix?

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 2/15/2020, 7:14 PM

RogerS, I am not seeing any problem / issue with grading as a track Fx !

RogerS wrote on 2/15/2020, 8:56 PM

Okay, I just opened Vegas 17 and am unable to see how to use color grading as a track Fx. I can select "color grading" as a track Fx and then if I move the cursor without highlighting a clip grading is grayed out. If I select a clip it then adds a color grading Fx to that event. What am I missing?

fr0sty wrote on 2/16/2020, 12:53 AM

- Selecting the tickmark on the track FX (color grading) maker the previewed image to just jump a frame backward, the playhead staying in the same position...

Color grading is not a track effect, it is a video event effect. It only works at that level. If you want to use a color grade at the media, track, or project level, then do a grade at the event level, export a LUT, reset all of your original grade's settings, then apply the LUT you made at the media, track, or project level.

I've also ever seen the behavior you describe, so I can't help much further from there. Maybe if you provide a screen capture video of it happening we can help more.

- selecting the tool makes the underlying track fully visible in the preview even if it should not be possible since the color grading is set of the topmost track.

Vegas' color grading isn't supposed to be applied at the track level, as described above, so perhaps this is what is leading to the behavior you are experiencing? Again, a video of the bug would help to diagnose.

- playing the timeline makes the video frames to jump back and forward - seemingly randomly.

I've seen this with drivers misbehaving, but usually not during timeline playback (I experience it during renders once in a blue moon, a driver update or rollback usually fixes it). Again, seeing this happen would help.

Grazie wrote on 2/16/2020, 1:29 AM

@fr0sty Hi! I posted a link to ScrapYard Video tutorial. Do view it. Using Nested makes the now Track Event available. I’m going to explore that. Have a look @fr0sty 😀