colour correction, multicam editing, digital zooming workflow question

SGLTech wrote on 8/9/2018, 1:02 PM

Hi Guys,

I’m using VEGAS Pro 14 to cut together footage of a live music concert.  This is my first time doing a 3-camera shoot, and I’ve hit a roadblock trying to figure out the best workflow with colour correction, multicam editing, and digital zooming, and would appreciate some advice.

Background:

  • Project output resolution will be FullHD.
  • Camera A (on take 3) is the static shot mostly, but has 4K resolution so I’m hoping to be able to do some digital zooming and smooth digital panning at times.
  • Camera B (on take 1) is a FullHD camera, and requires significant colour correction.
  • Camera C (on take 2) is a SD camera but has a mighty powerful optical zoom for odd use.

Issues:

·         I’ve duplicated Camera A to another video track with the intention of adding digital zoom and panning.  I’m trying to add it as take 4 in a multicamera edit allowing me to fade between the 4 takes, however, every time I enable Multicamera editing, I get a message saying “Some items (such as envelopes, effects, or motion) will be lost during this operation. Continue?” 

All my digital zooms and pans on the 4th camera track get destroyed, whether it be track motion or event motion.  Is digital zooming completely incompatible with multicamera editing? 

·         I should note that my GH4 footage is split into 4GB files by the camera, and there doesn’t seem to be any way to join the 4GB chunks together into a single event in VEGAS.  This project has twenty-one 4GB files which are all regarded as separate events, so to try to do digital zooming at an event level becomes problematic at event boundaries, so track motion is/would be much better – if it was compatible with multicamera editing. 

·         The colour correction of Camera B is extremely difficult to get it matching Camera A, especially when the lighting guy has been so ‘creative’ with a different colour scheme for every piece of music.  I can get it mostly ok with a colour match at a track level, but it seems there’s no simple way to view both sets of footage side by side to check it while scrubbing through the footage.   Multicamera editing mode conveniently places them side by side, but then I lose the ability to edit the track’s color match after enabling multicamera editing.  Tweaking colour correction at an event level becomes impossibly complex after the events have been split into 100 segments by a multicam edit.  I’ve attempted to apply a Color Match Media FX directly to the media file in the Project Media list, however, it seems to have no effect on the footage I’ve added to the timeline.  I’ve resorted to reverting to a previous version of the project prior to enabling multicamera editing to attempt to finalise colour correction, but I still need to be able to tweak it afterwards.  How am I supposed to be able to tweak colour correction at a camera level after doing a multicamera edit?

I can’t seem to figure out an efficient workflow to deal with all these issues, and I’ll appreciate any advice.

Comments

david-tu wrote on 8/9/2018, 1:05 PM

When you go to multicam editing, all effx are deleted. This is the way it works.

diverG wrote on 8/9/2018, 1:30 PM

You should be able to join your split (4gb) files in DOS.  Have done it with GoPro 4K files & files from a GH2

From the DOS command window this seems to work.

copy /b clip1.mp4+clip2.mp4+clip3.mp4+clip4.mp4 combined.mp4

If you are not sure of the file order use 'mediainfo' on the individual files to see start & end time.  Have fun.

JackW wrote on 8/9/2018, 2:21 PM

I'm sure there will be many who choose to work other ways, but for me the work flow is 1) cut and assemble, 2) audio enhance and 3) color correct. I prefer to see the entire project before me before trying to balance color and levels from one cut to the next.

OldSmoke wrote on 8/9/2018, 2:58 PM

When you go to multicam editing, all effx are deleted. This is the way it works.

Effects applied on the media level stay intact, that is the only that stays. I usually do color matching on the media level before I build the multicam track and final correction on the event level after all cuts are made.

Joelson-Forte wrote on 8/9/2018, 5:34 PM

In the multicam system, only effects applied to the FX media level remain as @OldSmoke said.

Another solution is to create a nested project for each of the cameras.

After that enable the multicam system and make the necessary adjustments in each nested project.

The advantage of working with nested projects in the multicam system is that you can see the effects applied to your preview in real time during multicam viewing.

OldSmoke wrote on 8/9/2018, 5:58 PM

In the multicam system, only effects applied to the FX media level remain as @OldSmoke said.

Another solution is to create a nested project for each of the cameras.

After that enable the multicam system and make the necessary adjustments in each nested project.

The advantage of working with nested projects in the multicam system is that you can see the effects applied to your preview in real time during multicam viewing.

Interesting, never thought about that. But, I am also not a big fan of nesting as I always forget what applies where and when. Like, where would I deinterlace footage? In the nested project or in the main project?

david-tu wrote on 8/9/2018, 8:16 PM

"I should note that my GH4 footage is split into 4GB files by the camera, and there doesn’t seem to be any way to join the 4GB chunks together into a single event in VEGAS.  This project has twenty-one 4GB files which are all regarded as separate events, so to try to do digital zooming at an event level becomes problematic at event boundaries, so track motion is/would be much better – if it was compatible with multicamera editing."

 

If you use the Device explorer to import your footage, it should join the files while doing so. 

Joelson-Forte wrote on 8/10/2018, 12:00 AM

Interesting, never thought about that. But, I am also not a big fan of nesting as I always forget what applies where and when. Like, where would I deinterlace footage? In the nested project or in the main project?

@OldSmoke when you nest events from a timeline the nested project assumes the properties of the main project.

But if you want to modify the nested project the events in the main timeline will assume the properties of the nested project. You can choose to work as you see fit. It is a very flexible working system.

@david-tu If you nest your clips your problem will also be solved.

OldSmoke wrote on 8/10/2018, 6:34 AM

@OldSmoke when you nest events from a timeline the nested project assumes the properties of the main project.

But if you want to modify the nested project the events in the main timeline will assume the properties of the nested project. You can choose to work as you see fit. It is a very flexible working system.

@Joelson-Forte This somewhat doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t believe that it can be either way, there would have to be a switch somewhere where yo can choose. I also thought that you can only nest a while project in another project, I wasn’t aware you can nest events: how is that done?

I was always under the impression that if you nest a project in another, the nested project is treated as if it was a rendered file with all it’s effects and project settings. An we know that everything setting at the top of the settings page do effect the render but so does the interlace method property. So if you already de-interlace the nested project is now considers progressive in the main project?

david-tu wrote on 8/10/2018, 7:16 AM

I don't like nesting. At least on my computers, it is too slow.

Joelson-Forte wrote on 8/10/2018, 12:46 PM

@OldSmoke Check out this video I did. I hope he clarifies your doubts.

@david-tu It is not slow here. Try to nest only video events without audios like I did in the demo video and see if it improves.

OldSmoke wrote on 8/10/2018, 1:08 PM

@OldSmoke Check out this video I did. I hope he clarifies your doubts.

@david-tu It is not slow here. Try to nest only video events without audios like I did in the demo video and see if it improves.

@altarvic Do you think it's possible to automate a complex process like this?

Thanks for taking the time to make this video. It basically confirms what I already stated. A nested project is treated as if it was a rendered file with all its FX applied, the project settings and hopefully the de-interlace method selected in the nested project. I just don't see how nesting would help in a multicam project. Everything can be done in the same project and quite efficiently so.

Joelson-Forte wrote on 8/10/2018, 1:19 PM

Thanks for taking the time to make this video. It basically confirms what I already stated. A nested project is treated as if it was a rendered file with all its FX applied, the project settings and hopefully the de-interlace method selected in the nested project. I just don't see how nesting would help in a multicam project. Everything can be done in the same project and quite efficiently so.

@OldSmoke for me the main advantage is the organization of the project itself, the ease and freedom to apply the fx or media fx effects however you want and also the convenience of being able to see all this in the multicam preview. You can not do any of this with Multicam mode enabled.

OldSmoke wrote on 8/10/2018, 1:49 PM

Thanks for taking the time to make this video. It basically confirms what I already stated. A nested project is treated as if it was a rendered file with all its FX applied, the project settings and hopefully the de-interlace method selected in the nested project. I just don't see how nesting would help in a multicam project. Everything can be done in the same project and quite efficiently so.

@OldSmoke for me the main advantage is the organization of the project itself, the ease and freedom to apply the fx or media fx effects however you want and also the convenience of being able to see all this in the multicam preview. You can not do any of this with Multicam mode enabled.

@Joelson-Forte I do agree that you can see the effects in the multicam preview but that also slows the system down which is the reason why FX is bypassed in multicam view. I usually work with 3-5 1080 59.94p cameras and 1 or two 4K in the same project and that puts a lot of strain on the system. Even without the 4K shots, 4 tracks of 1080 59.94p XAVC-S is a lot even for a good system. I usually start off with putting the shots each on their own track, then use Vegasaur the make a 4cam view that looks exactly like a multicam edit would look like. Now I align the shots, make color corrections on the media FX level and the final step is to build the mulitcam track. Once all is cut, I do final color correction on the event level and all my audio work is done thereafter.

Joelson-Forte wrote on 8/10/2018, 2:02 PM

I usually start off with putting the shots each on their own track, then use Vegasaur the make a 4cam view that looks exactly like a multicam edit would look like.

@OldSmoke How do you use Vegasaur to see the 4 cameras? Is the Pan Crop Assistant / PIP option? I had never thought about it. It's a great idea. Thanks!

OldSmoke wrote on 8/10/2018, 3:11 PM

I usually start off with putting the shots each on their own track, then use Vegasaur the make a 4cam view that looks exactly like a multicam edit would look like.

@OldSmoke How do you use Vegasaur to see the 4 cameras? Is the Pan Crop Assistant / PIP option? I had never thought about it. It's a great idea. Thanks!

Yes it is.