Computer survey

dan-hedrick wrote on 2/25/2010, 12:31 PM
The March 2010 issue of PC WOrld lists the best and worst PCs (Desktop & Laptop). I am in the market for a new desktop computer this year and have been leaning very heavily for an HP computer, (i7 or i5 processor) 64 bit, Windows 7....etc.
However, PC World shows HP as the "worst" of desktops and laptops. My personal experience with HP Laptops has been very good. PC WOrld lists Sony PCs very highly.
Just curious what other forum leaders are using and their experice with their choice. Specifically, how these computers work with Vegas Movie (studio and pro) products.
Thanks,

lcdrdan

Comments

OhMyGosh wrote on 2/25/2010, 1:32 PM
I will be interested as well, but the one thing I can tell you is that Dell sucks! I bought one for my sister last week, and returned it unopened. Worst customer service of my life. Took 4 transfers to get someone to speak enough English to barely get by, and it still took 40 minutes to order it, and I don't even want to talk about returning it. Apparently Dell is located in El Salvador according to one of the many reps that I talked to. Cin
Chienworks wrote on 2/25/2010, 1:50 PM
Dells are ... ok ... if all you want is a plain PC that comes prepackaged and you never need any support or upgrades. If what they offer fits your needs out-of-the-box then it's pretty difficult to beat their prices. We buy then in bulk for workstations in the office. 'Course, most people there wipe the hard drive and install Linux or a bare-bones Windows XP, with none of the Dell crud. By far the absolute WORST part of a Dell computer is all the extra software they add. Their hardware is average and acceptable but their OS install is the pits.

I haven't had as much experience with HP, but what little i've had is pretty similar.

Personally i highly recommend getting parts from Newegg and putting it together yourself, or at least finding a local Mom'n'Pop shop to do it for you. You can get exactly the pieces you want without paying for anything you don't want or need. You've also got much better upgrade paths available. It might not beat Dell's bargain basement prices, but it'll be close.
david_f_knight wrote on 2/25/2010, 3:12 PM
I agree with Chienworks, re: getting the parts from newegg or have a local Mom 'n Pop shop build a computer for you. It's hard to determine what components are actually installed in the pre-built computers from Dell, HP, etc. From my research, they are usually older components from low-quality generic brands and if you care to upgrade anything at Dell, then you pay an exorbitant price and the choices are very limited and quite poor. Basically, their bare-bones default configurations are the only way to get anything close to a reasonable price from them. Generally, the computers from Dell are not upgradable (which isn't to imply that HP or Sony's are, I just haven't researched them as much so I don't know). For example, the power supplies generally have the lowest possible wattage output required for just the components installed inside the box. If you want to upgrade later on with a new graphics card, for example, there's a good chance the power supply will then be too small and you'll have to replace it, too, or suffer intermittent crashes or outright failure to run at all.

Personally, I built my own computer and have had no problems running Vegas for AVCHD editing. The retail components that you get from a place like newegg are generally higher quality and higher performance than the generic components used by Dell. In any case, you chose exactly what it is you want to fit your current and anticipated needs. The way I look at it is, if your only interest is word processing and reading your e-mail, then go with a Dell, because the requirements are so low for such uses that any crappy box will do. But if you want to do anything that actually requires some horsepower, like rendering video or playing 3D games or running engineering software, then go with a system that is customized for your needs.
hydrogin wrote on 2/25/2010, 8:16 PM
This may not help you if you're in the majority of folks who don't want to build their own PC ... but I am also a PC builder and can vouch for Newegg as a source for components to build with. From a cost perspective, I suspect Newegg will always come out a bit pricier than buying from a pre-built volume house like Dell or HP.

One thing I will say about Dell (the last few companies I've worked for always use Dell as the standard office PC) is they are good at designing quiet and cool PC's. Their cases are pretty nice and they often use noise-free heat pipes and internal air ducting.

Regardless of the way you go, it never hurts to have lots of memory and disk for video editing applications. Try to get two hard drives, one for the OS and the other for video data. If you're a little more experienced, you can RAID your video drives, but this isn't totally necessary unless you do video for a living. If you have the option, I suggest getting something with an eSATA port (they're becoming pretty common) which you can use with an external eSATA drive - up to perhaps 2x faster than an external USB drive (depending on how fast the drive is). This will help you archive/backup your video collection if it gets very large.

I just built a portable PC for field work using a Core i7. Its amazing how capable CPU's are these days. But heck, I render at home with an ancient Athlon64 :)
richard-amirault wrote on 2/26/2010, 5:45 PM
Running a Dell here:

i7 with 12 gig RAM
1 T HD
24" 16x9 LCD monitor
ATI Radon HD 4600 video card
Vista 64 (with free upgrade to Win 7 .. rcvd, but not installed yet)
2 year warrenty
$1200 from Costco

Added 2nd HD (500 gig) and 2nd monitor (17" 4x3 LCD)

Interesting story: After I added my 2nd monitor I started getting screen flashes and then a box saying that my video driver had been re-set. That was OK .. except if it happened two or three times quick in a row .. then I got the Blue Screen Of Death.

That happened a few times .. until the last time .. and then the computer was taking a *real* long time to re-boot .. but the HD showed activity so I let it alone .. and it finally re-booted .. but EVERYTHING was so S-L-O-W.

Running Task Manager showed me that instead of 8 cpu's and 12 gig, I had only one cpu and 256 MEG !!! No wonder things were taking forever ... it was all that disk access for virtual memory that my 64 bit operating system was using.

I tried *everything* I could think of to fix the probem. Nothing worked. Either it "timed-out" or outright refused to start. (ie: re-install of Vista said it could not install with 256 meg of ram, and quit)

As a last resort I called Dell service. When I got to a service person I said "Let me tell you what I tried already" and went thru the list. She said "Oh, you did everything I was going to tell you to try."

From another computer I went on-line an found that the video problem that I was having was common with my video card, but ONLY when two monitors were used.

I told that to the service person. She wanted to connect to my computer. I said no, because it would not work.

She spend considerable time with me discussing my problem. She wanted me to try a few things (that was going to take a while) and she took my phone number and was going to call me back the next day.

I did what she wanted .. no luck. I finally went to the store and bought the second HD (listed above) and installed it .. then installed Vista on that drive .. then swapped drives so that my C: drive was the new drive. It booted up just fine. When she called back I had her connect, but she could not find or fix the problem.

She finally gave up and sent me a new 1 T HD with pre-installed software. I installed it and swapped back the drives and so long as I did not re-attach my second monitor (I forgot to mention that I removed it when all this happened) everything worked just fine.

Some weeks later I decided to go to the ATI website and get the latest driver for the video card. I installed that and re-attached the 2nd monitor . EVERYTHING WORKS NOW!!! :-))

My view: Dell service is good .... ATI software is problematic (I've had other problems with ATI with other computers in the past)
ADinelt wrote on 3/1/2010, 9:46 AM
I have been working for the City of London for about 12 years now. We have always used the HP/Compaq small form factor computers and they have always worked great. We are on a 3 year leas plan, so I get a new computer every 3 years.

Aside from that, I have personally owned a few HP/Compaq laptops and have had problem with only 1, the NC6000. There is a problem in the design of the main board, and after opening and closing the lid for a period of time, a surface mount chip on the board located near the right hinge will break it's solder connections. It was a pain to fix (since it was out of warranty), but it worked okay after that.

I have also had a few used DELL laptops which have all worked great for me. I just bought a used DELL Inspiron 1720 last Thursday, and it has been great. Parts are usually easy to find if you need them on eBay.

Don't know anything about Customer Service with either company, so can't help you there.

As for Desktops, a couple of months ago, I custom built a PC with the Intel Dual 2 Quad CPU (couldn't afford any of the i chips) as well as a Dual 2 Core CPU desktop for my wife. My son built his own computer a while ago, also a Dual 2 Core CPU. I don't think I would ever buy a pre-configured PC from a store, as you don't really know what parts were put into them. A lot of stores are now putting seals on the side panels, so if you open the box yourself and break the seal, the warranty becomes void. I understand why the stores are doing this, but I don't like it. Every month or two, I open the computers and blow everything out. Wouldn't be able to do that with a store bought computer.

Al
dan-hedrick wrote on 3/3/2010, 3:17 PM
For those of you that built your own Desktop (or Laptop) Computers....can you explain the process you go through to get the right components? I want a good desktop that does all the day-to-day programming PLUS....can do some medium level video editing, i.e. Vegam Movie Studio and Vegas Movie Pro...and DVDA.
Is there a way to spell out what I want and then choose from available parts?
When you order parts newegg...do you get drawings, schematics....etc?
Thank you in advance.

lcdrdan
eightyeightkeys wrote on 3/3/2010, 4:44 PM
I'm not a particularly "techy" person, so, I would never build a computer from components myself.
After owning and struggling with a Mac for many years, I bought a Music XPC - www.musicxpc.com for my recording studio. It is, by far and away, the best computer I have ever owned. I have rarely had an issue, but, if I had a question or some sort of hiccup, those guys were right there to assist. Tech-support second to none.
If you ever get the chance to get a computer made by a real pro, do it. It is worth every penny imho.
david_f_knight wrote on 3/3/2010, 6:07 PM
Realistically, I don't think you can build your own laptop.

For a desktop, there are several components required. But what you need depends on what you start with. Assuming you already have a desktop computer, and you won't have any use for it after you build a new desktop computer, then you can probably use some of the components you already have in your existing computer. By the way, I have been building my own computers for years, and after my first one, I just upgrade one or two components every now and then (based on my current needs) rather than start from scratch. For example, my current computer is in the same computer case I bought over 10 years ago for my first build. Building computers this way makes them cheaper than what Dell or anyone else can do, so I always have a nice up-to-date computer but with only incremental costs when a good sale price comes along and my needs or desires require it. If environmental issues concern you, there's less waste this way, too.

When you buy components from newegg (or other places), some are sold as "retail" and some are sold as "OEM." (That will be right in the title of the item.) It's usually better to buy the "retail" version for most items. The difference usually is that retail comes in a pretty (decorated) box, probably has a significantly longer warranty, comes with all required accessories such as cables and fans (if appropriate), and comes with installation instructions. OEM components might not even be in a box and generally have absolutely nothing else but a 30-day warranty, and cost a small bit less. Especially for your first build, I recommend using only retail components. If you do buy an OEM component, you should have a good reason for doing so (and saving $5 is NOT a good reason). You get what you pay for, and retail is worth the little extra; OEM CPUs don't come with a fan, for instance, but retail CPUs do. If you ran your computer without a CPU fan, you'd destroy your CPU in minutes (and the warranty would be voided).

By far, the single most complex component, from a builder's perspective, is the motherboard. Virtually every component in your computer connects to the motherboard. The retail versions absolutely come with detailed drawings and descriptions, letting you know where to plug each type of cable and component in, and the types you need. Over the years there have been many improvements in computer components, and every now and then an advance requires abandoning the current standard for a new one. It's the motherboard that determines which generation of components you need.

However, probably the fundamental first decision to make is to choose which CPU you want. You can choose between AMD and Intel. Arguing which is better is like arguing which religion is best; they are both good, but they are not interchangeable, so they dictate which motherboards you can choose. If you want to be able to do incremental upgrades over the years to keep your system up-to-date but without having to replace other components, then choose reasonably current technology (doesn't need to be the bleeding edge, which has a large cost premium for a small increment in performance). You can get ideas of what to choose by first making a budget: about how much do you want to spend in total for your computer? Then review posts people have made that do the sorts of work you want to do, and see what they are using and whether they say it's adequate or not. Also, once you have a budget, go to newegg and look at the different components to see which ones are in your price range. That helps narrow things down a lot and give you a feel for what you should be considering. Newegg has customer reviews for each item they sell, so read those for an idea of quality and issues others have reported. You can read reviews of components at various websites, such as:
http://www.tomshardware.com
They have a lot of reviews and comparisons and so on which can be very helpful to give you the insight you might want to help decide what components to choose.

That's the background overview.

Here's a list of generally required components:
monitor
keyboard
mouse
speakers
computer case
power supply
motherboard
CPU
graphics card
memory
hard disk(s)
DVD or Blu-ray writer
an operating system (for Vegas users, that means a license to some version of Windows)

Depending on your setup, you might also want additional items like a wireless network adapter or a sound card (most motherboards have adequate sound capabilities built-in, but if you want to be doing recording studio quality work, then you'll want a higher-quality sound card).

You may be able to salvage a number of these from your current computer. If you buy retail versions (or can salvage from your current computer), then all the cables and adapters you need should come with them and not require any extra purchases.

There's no question that building a completely new computer from the ground up requires considerable research if you want to get everything that is compatible, low-cost, and high-performance, which might make it seem overwhelming. But future upgrades often involve just one or two items so it is usually much easier from then on.

For most performance computers, the main components to focus on are (1) the CPU, (2) the graphics adapter, (3) the memory (i.e., RAM), and (4) the hard disk(s).

For power supplies, they just need to provide enough power. The CPU and the graphics card are the main power users, so they pretty much dictate how much power your power supply must provide. You want to have excess to allow for future upgrades. Get at least 600W, but even more if you want a really powerful CPU or graphics card, or if you will be using several internal hard drives plus several internal DVD or Blu-ray drives. For many components, it is hard to find out how much power they require. It is better to have a power supply that can provide more than required than one that doesn't have the juice you need now or in the future. By the way, as time has gone on, newer CPUs and graphics cards have tended to require more power than older ones, so plan accordingly.

A final note (for this overview): most electronic components are very sensitive to static electricity, especially when they are not connected to anything that grounds them electrically (in other words, before they have been installed in a computer case). They come wrapped in special protective anti-electrostatic bags. You should do everything possible to protect them when you are working with them. Easiest (and most effective) is to only work on them when the relative humidity is high, i.e., not during the winter; if you still need a furnace on to keep warm, then your air is dry and static discharge is a serious risk. Do not remove a component from its anti-static bag until you are ready to install it; that means, do not walk between the time you take the component out of its bag and when you install it in the case (your feet rubbing the floor can generate a large static buildup). Avoid touching any subcomponents (the little do-dads soldered to boards); try to just handle boards by their edges and especially avoid touching any bare metal (other than the bare metal of your computer case which is good to touch so you are at the same potential as it). You can buy an inexpensive anti-static wrist band that you connect to your computer case so you are at the same electrical potential as it, which isn't a bad idea especially if you must work on your computer during the winter. Static electricity is a silent killer: a few kilovolts can shorted the life or outright destroy a component. For comparison, if there is a spark, such as when you touch a doorknob, then several tens of kilovolts have been discharged -- more than enough to utterly destroy any ungrounded component in its path.