ConnectHD 3.0

Laurence wrote on 5/24/2006, 7:13 AM
I just upgraded to ConnectHD 3.0. There are a couple of new options that look quite interesting. One is the ability to deinterlace and remove pulldown on capture, another is the ability to capture to a smartrenderable format (like what you get if you use Gearshift).

One question I have is how much bigger are the smartrenderable Cineform AVIs, and does it take any longer to capture and convert them?

Comments

David Newman wrote on 5/24/2006, 7:43 AM
The smart renderable files are about 20% bigger (on average) but they are just as fast in all operations.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm
www.cineform.com
MH_Stevens wrote on 5/24/2006, 8:51 AM
I'm very disappointed that having recommended CineForm so much here and having bought it at full price (not Sony version) less than six months ago I have to now pay more for such minimal upgrades.

Michael
p@mast3rs wrote on 5/24/2006, 9:06 AM
Connect HD delivers a near-real-time, online editing workflow for HDV with Sony Vegas and other Windows AVI-compatible applications.

5/17/06: v3.0 now available;

$99 upgrade for all existing customers
David Newman wrote on 5/24/2006, 12:01 PM
We understand that there are always some who feel left out when we charge of an upgrade. We try to limit this pain for those who purchased within 3 months the upgrade was free, but they will always be someone on the edge who missing out. You are welcome to wait until you need a feature present in 3.1 or 3.2 etc, or if you have production that use HVX200. However, Connect HD 3.0 includes subtle enhancements to all components (include the codec) so the $99 upgrade, or $199 first purchase, will be worth while for most HD projects.
rextilleon wrote on 5/24/2006, 12:48 PM
Excuse me MH--are you under the impression that Cineform is not in the business of making profits--that they dont have expenses to continue the evolution of their software. For what it does, Connect is a great product and I think that their three month policy is right in line with other software developers.
epirb wrote on 5/25/2006, 5:27 PM
dan could you explain or post a link to a page on the cineform website that explains what or how the new "smart render feature" would work in Vegas?
I have looked and I dont see anything explaining it a liitle more in detail ie: how you would use it and why.
David Newman wrote on 5/26/2006, 8:03 AM
Smart render changes the default codec structure so that Vegas will not re-render frames unnecessarily. This improves both quality and performance when using the CineForm codec in Vegas. I recommend all Vegas user have this option set.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm
DGrob wrote on 5/26/2006, 6:35 PM
Is this the same as the "Smart Resample" switch? Darryl
David Newman wrote on 5/26/2006, 10:16 PM
No -- not related.
Marco. wrote on 5/27/2006, 3:50 AM
I just tested the new trial because I'd be glad to improve the playback performance of intermediates.

But I am bit disappointed now. I used Connect HD 3.0 to convert existing HDV 1080i files. I tried both medium as well as large setting. But both versions (non Smart Render ones) even play less smooth than the version I rendered inside Vegas.

Then I tried same while having the Smart Render option turned on. The resulting files (medium setting) now are about equal in playback performance compared to the Vegas generated are. But none of the file created with ConnectHD 3.0 were faster/smoother.

Marco
David Newman wrote on 5/27/2006, 12:35 PM
We don't (yet) ship a faster VfW codec than the one Sony licensed from us. The reason to use Connect HD 3.0, you get a much faster and higher quality conversion using HDlink, including support for many more cameras and custom camera features. So for playback performance you are asking us to compete with ourselves, although technical we can make dual-core systems go faster however that market isn't big enough yet for a $199 product.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm
Marco. wrote on 5/27/2006, 2:45 PM
"Faster Vegas timeline editing performance for CineForm Intermediate files converted using HDLink" is a quote from the Cineform website which I thought meant the playback performance.

Thanks for clarifying.

Another one: I tested the smart rendering of CF intermediates which were created with the Smart Render option turned on. For my understanding Smart Render means no real rendering where it is not neccesary. If I only put a file into the timeline and export it to the same format, codec, properties - it will be only copied.

So I put a file which is 43 seconds long and which I converted to a CF Smart Render file into the Vegas timeline, did nothing than render again to CF. It took 2 minutes and 30 seconds.
Now I converted a file with Vegas to CF and again rendered this one. Now it only took about 40 seconds.
The behaviour actually is vice versa than I expected.

It seems like the Vegas rendered CF files are smart renderable now. And even rendering the HDV original (to CF intermediates) in Vegas is faster than rendering CF Smart Render files (in Vegas to CF files again).

Marco

David Newman wrote on 5/27/2006, 5:39 PM
This is true : "Faster Vegas timeline editing performance for CineForm Intermediate files converted using HDLink" as compared we native HDV editing it what this is refer.

The rest sound like a bug, maybe in your setup. Make sure you timeline properties match your source clips, other it will re-render (as it should.)
Zion wrote on 5/27/2006, 5:52 PM
Dan

It's no bug on our end.

I tried rendering to another track a 1080i HDV file created on the vegas time line and then a 1080i HDV file created buy Connect HD 2.1 The one created on the vegas time line rendered to another track was real time the 10sec file only took 10sec. Like he said the one created with Connect HD 2.1 rendered in 43sec for a 10sec HDV file.

ZION
David Newman wrote on 5/27/2006, 6:12 PM
ZION,

We are talking about Connect HD 3.0 which has smart rendering support, not v2.1.
Serena wrote on 5/27/2006, 10:30 PM
One of the conversion options (under pre-compression filters) is "de-interlace 1080i sources". Is this a smart de-interlacing or a mere blending of fields?
David Newman wrote on 5/27/2006, 11:10 PM
The deinterlace uses both fields for improve resolution at the expense of increased motion blur . The isn't the simpliest of de-interlacing algorithm yet there are more complex ones out there for those who need. For that look into Magic Bullet or DVFilmmaker.
Serena wrote on 5/27/2006, 11:29 PM
Thanks Dan. Yes I use DVFilmMaker. Thought you might be saving me the trouble!
Marco. wrote on 5/28/2006, 3:09 AM
>> Make sure you timeline properties match your source clips, other it will re-render

The project properties did surely match exactly the intermediates I used for rerendering. Both the ConnectHD 3.0 rendered intermediates as well as the Vegas rendered intermediates had same properties. Both matched the Vegas project properties (or vice versa) and the render settings for both files were exactly same.

I tested this several times. The rerendered intermediates which should have Smart Render facilities took much longer to render then the ones which were generated in Vegas before (which rendered in realtime).

Whatever I do I cannot get the files which were rendered in ConnectHD 3.0 as Smart Render files to behave as expected when rerendering in Vegas. Except there would be something special to take care of ...!?
I used the Medium setting in ConnectHD and also used the Medium setting (which seems to standard) when rerendering in Vegas.

Marco
Wes C. Attle wrote on 5/28/2006, 3:35 AM
Anyone have samples of the deinterlacing in CHD 3.0 to share? I'd only pay that high upgrade cost if it looked real good.
Serena wrote on 5/28/2006, 6:08 AM
I ran it on a few clips and it looked fine, but those clips were pretty easy (slow tracking shot). However you can download fully functional CF for testing.
fldave wrote on 5/28/2006, 6:09 AM
Just one more thing to rule out: are the audio properties of the clips the same and do they match the project audio settings? I've had slow previews because of that before.
epirb wrote on 5/28/2006, 6:29 AM
I for one am interested in buying 3.0 but wish there was a little more info on the features for vegas users.
For example, if converted to CFDI in Connect HD using the progressive modes what is the difference between :
cineform encode progressive button,and the deinterlace 1080i sources precompression filter.
do you check one?both? And as mentioned earlier no matter which way I try,... the clips properties all show them as interlaced.

Then assuming that smat rendering is checked and you have selected one or both of the deinterlace modes when rerendering from the T/L what settings should the render template be set to?
I am assuming HDV inter w/ custom settings such as field order progressive.
but then I see something strange, in the "video format" it shows connect HD V2.5, click on configure and it shows V2.4 but with a selection choice of "automatic" ,"Interlaced" or "progressive".

Bottom line is there are many questions I have but cant find answers on the Cineform website,including their forums, and with the render times required, its hard to experiment with all to find out which gets the best /proper result.

For me the final output right now is DVD and using the std CFDI's (60i) then final render to DVDA std or 24p widescreen has always got great results for what I need.
So maybe the benefits of 3.0 are not needed for me right now.

My thoughts are for future media ..ie:1080p, It would be nice to be encoding and archiving my stuff prgressive maybe?
Will smart rendering help my work flow now?
Marco. wrote on 5/28/2006, 6:39 AM
Yes, even the audio events properties match exactly the project properties and are the same in any of the tested clips.

Marco