> OK! After blowing my top, will someone, some expert, tell me how to prevent Media Manager from putting the extra stuff in there.

Sure: Go to Options > Preferences > General tab. Uncheck the option [] Save media-usage relationships in active media library. That’s it!

~jr

Umm, this wouldn't be one of them Software Manual issues now again, would it?

Where having a real-life-use-oriented manual would have made this plainly clear?

Where features are described not from the programmer's standpoint or from the menu designer's standpoint, but from the standpoint of a user who needs to be advised how use the Media Manager for his work?

Nahhh.

Coursie, before I larf up me sleeve, does it actually spell this out, page quotes would be good, where this is the case?

But hold on, jr, stopping the relationships would also do what? What do I need to know when I uncheck this? What level of relationship dissociation is going to be invoked? Come to that who knows these things? Programmers? Alpha Testers? Where would I read about knowing how to make use of this - in the way Paul asked?

As I said Coursie, lest I should say, "I told you so . . .. " let's get chapter and verse on this feature, and where it is within the manual.

Grazie

I did not have relations with that database!

(SQL databases are the most common relational DBMS type today, but not the only one.)

Access utilises a File Server design while SQL Server employs a Client/Server approach. This is a fundamentally different architecture which has many, many implications regarding data integrity, performance, scalability and reliability. Read more here: http://www.aldex.co.uk/sqlserver.html

>I'm wondering if you are getting some database concepts mixed up here.

That terminology is a bit different from what I am used to, but the underlying conclusion is certainly correct.

The integrity aspect is based on atomic operations, and avoiding the class of problems that comes from crappy client machines directly accessing the file structure of the database that is usually running on a carefully nurtured server without other dangerous apps.

In the case of Vegas Media Manager, it's likely to be all running on the same machine though, so it doesn't really matter as much if the file structure access code is in a Jet type file manager or a SQL DBMS file manager.

Of course, the Jet engine was very poorly designed, to the point where even MS Access abandoned it, replacing it with MSDE which I believe is the engine that Vegas uses.

MSDE is uSofts free licencing of it's SQL Server for upto 5 users, one way for the them to improve the uptake of SQL Server.
Jet has served me very well, over 50 sites running my apps down here with less than one Jet glitch per year.
For large sites needing WAN access we run under Terminal Services, keeping all the critical parts running on a high end server solves most of the problems and keeps the client hardware requirments to a minimum as well as the WAN bandwidth.
However I have to agree, I've written a few apps that suck data from our SQL Server databases and man does that stuff scream along, so fast first time I tested my code I was certain nothing had happened.
BTW, the Netware file servers were incredibly robust because they stored their directories in a similar way to SQL Server with full audit trails and transaction backtracking.
One down side to MS's SQL Server is trying ti uninstall the damn thing, we keep our demo versions of the applications at the old Jet release for this very reason, leaving behind MSDE hogging resources is not the way to win clients.
That's why ideally Vegas's MM should be hived off to a dedicated server, then the power of the beast would be unleashed.

Bob.

Thanks, JohnnyRoy!

I knew one of you gurus had done the hard work and knew what do to. I just couldn't seem to find that and I did a lot of clicking around over the last few months (from time to time) trying to get rid of that.

Suddenly Media Manager (which I do run and use occasionally) looks much sweeter to me!

And Grazie, thanks. Believe it or not I think that JohnnyRoys' quick tip does all I need for now to be happy with Media Manager and to begin to use it religiously. I'm sure everything else will fall in line. I do know that it classifies my Vegas loops automatically with the reference library, so for Acid I already consider it valuable.

Edit: Hmmm! Just looked back to my previous post to this and I see JohnnyRoy already set me straight on this on March 7th. Only problem is I didn't go back to view the whole thread after I had posted. Oh well, better late than never. I am now starting to create new subfolders and dragging and dropping files into categories. This may turn out to be fun!

My earlier point was that Adobe Photoshop Elements uses Jet and there are many reports of it running out of steam at about 10k photos. This is consistent with my past experience using Jet vs MSDE and SQLAnywhere in applications I have built. Jet just isn't architected for high throughput. There have also corruption issues with Jet. I will be more likely to use Vegas MM with it built on the SQLServer engine than I would be if it were dbase or Jet. I do, however, concur that it would be nice if Sony (or Microsoft) could eliminate the install/uninstall issues with SQLServer.

As far as I know, Access 2003 still defaults to Jet (version 4.0) as its database engine. It can optionally use SQL Server 2000 Desktop Engine which is the new name for Microsoft Data Engine (MSDE).

>In the case of Vegas Media Manager, it's likely to be all running on the same machine though, so it doesn't really matter as much if the file structure access code is in a Jet type file manager or a SQL DBMS file manager.

> Coursedesign wrote: Where features are described not from the programmer's standpoint or from the menu designer's standpoint, but from the standpoint of a user who needs to be advised how use the Media Manager for his work?

Actually, that’s what we try and do with the VASST Training DVD’s. I try and always teach from the perspective of WHY you would want to use a feature not just HOW you use it. It is harder to write and teach from that perspective but it yields much more useful training.

> Grazie wrote: But hold on, jr, stopping the relationships would also do what? What do I need to know when I uncheck this?

It stops adding the media that you use to the Media Manager. That means it also stops making relationships between the media. What many people don’t realize is that the Media Manager is keeping track of what you use together. You can right-click on a piece of media and select Find Related Items... and select to find media that was Used with this media in other projects, or Rendered from this media, or any of a number if different relationships. You will loose this ability when you uncheck that option.

> Paul_Holmes wrote: am now starting to create new subfolders and dragging and dropping files into categories. This may turn out to be fun!

Did you know you can have the Media Manager do this for you too? If you create tags in the Media Manager that map to your hard drive folder names before you add the media, then when you add the media, check the option [x] Use file and folder names to apply tags automatically. As the media is added, it will automatically get tagged based on the folder names that it came from on your hard drive. This makes tagging very quick and easy and only takes a little pre-planning.

~jr

Actually, that’s what we try and do with the VASST Training DVD’s. I try and always teach from the perspective of WHY you would want to use a feature not just HOW you use it. It is harder to write and teach from that perspective but it yields much more useful training.

Ya'll have it so easy nowadays!

I remember 25 years ago when I was sitting with my typewriter, using scissors and glue for Cut and Paste, writing user manuals for one of the first personal computers designed for consumers (because the word processing software wasn't finished yet). Soooooo, what to call it when the user needs to press a certain key to do something?

"Press the key"?, "click the key"?, "poke the key"? (no, that won't be allowed in Australia), "depress the key"?, etc. I had to assume, what was the reality, that very few people had ever used a keyboard.

I agree that VASST has great training materials that really come from the user's standpoint.

Perhaps I'm just a bit ol'fashioned an'all, thinking that Madison could avoid a lot of badwill if they included a bit more user-oriented info...

Sigh, this is truly the era of "The Missing Manual" books, "Scenarist Survival Guide, Vol. I-VIII", etc., ...

jr wrote: Actually, that’s what we try and do with the VASST Training DVD’s. I try and always teach from the perspective of WHY you would want to use a feature not just HOW you use it. It is harder to write and teach from that perspective but it yields much more useful training.

Now this sounds familiar John? Manuals published by a software house say what their software can DO. Tutorials INVITE a user to explore what could be achieved with it. Big big difference! The former is Process over Impact - the latter is Impact over Process. This has been my crusade for the past 20 years. And y'know what? It goes for loads of "other" stuff too.

Now all I need is a Grazie-Proof VASST tute on Boris Grafitti 3.0!