Converting from vhs

mrBun wrote on 8/23/2005, 5:49 PM
I have just been given a bunch of videos from a client. He wants me to edit these to present a retrospective of his career. Some of these videos date back to the 70's and are dodgy to say the least.
I am using a domestic vhs machine to capture.
My problem is that the result is even worse than the original. I am seeing striping (interlace perhaps?) and a line that runs across the bottom of every take. Cleaning the heads doesn't fix it.
Can anyone please tell me the best settings for Vegas, or for that matter, any advice generally. I am fairly new to Vegas, and totally new to having to convert old vhs video. I am using Vegas 5 and PAL. thanks =)

Comments

John_Cline wrote on 8/23/2005, 6:42 PM
Yes, the "striping" is most likely interlacing. It's perfectly normal and won't be an issue when your client watches the video on a television.

The line at the bottom is head switching and every VHS machine does it. Once again, it will not be noticable when you view it on a television because TV's overscan the image on both sides as well as the top and bottom, so the head switching noise won't be seen when viewed on a TV.

John
JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/23/2005, 6:58 PM
I wouldn’t worry about the interlacing. It’s only noticeable on a PC monitor because they are non-interlaced. It will look fine when output back to a DVD or tape for TV. Same is true with the line at the bottom. You are seeing far more video on a PC monitor than a TV can display. This is normal when capturing analog footage and it won’t be seen when displayed on a TV.

If you want to invest some money, you can get a Canopus ADVC-300 which has a TBC and noise reduction. It will actually improve the quality of the tapes while capturing. If you don’t want to invest money, you can use VirtualDub with the Border Control filter to remove the tearing and lines around the border, and Dynamic Noise Reduction to remove some of the noise in the VHS tape (Mike Crash has this as a Vegas plug-in). I use this on ALL my analog captures and it really helps the quality quite a bit.

There is also Noise Reduction Suite and FlaXen VHS filter. Here is a good tutorial on using VirtualDub Filters. Also check out John Meyer’s "ultimate" VHS tape restoration recipe

~jr
johnmeyer wrote on 8/23/2005, 8:58 PM
The TBC will help a lot if your tapes show "flagging" at the top of the screen (where the video is bent to the right, and wavering slightly). In the old days, when you dubbed from one analog VCR to another, the TBC was mandatory in order to avoid having the sync signals progressively get out of whack (technical term). When capturing to a digital format, the frame is captured, and when it is put back to video, a new sync signal is generated. While technically not the same thing as TBC, it achieves the same result of regenerating the sync pulses. Thus, if the video signal is strong enough to have each frame be captured without flagging, you don't need the TBC; if you see flagging, you need it.

Make sure you always enable the "edit mode" on your VCR. This is sometimes called "tape dub" (Philips and JVC) or some other similar thing. Enabling this turns off the horrible edge enhancement circuitry which introduces "ringing" around all transitions from light to dark. To some eyes, this appears to "sharpen" the image, but in fact it causes all sorts of detail to be lost, and really screws up the capture. Also, if your VCR has noise reduction, do NOT enable this. If you do, it will soften the image considerably. Finally, use the best VCR you can find, not some $40 bargain basement model. If you have to capture tapes that were recorded at slower speeds (LP or EP), then you definitely want to get a multiple head model. Multiple heads are designed to pick up the helical recording with the exact geometry used when the tape was recorded. When the tape is moved at a different speed, the heads must be in a physically different place. The only way to do this when there is only one head drum is to have multiple heads around the drum and then turn on the appropriate ones depending on the playback speed.

Once you have captured, you can use all sorts of tricks to try to remove the inevitable noise that is part of any analog video, but especially unavoidable with VHS.

I published my "Ultimate" VHS tape restoration recipe quite some time ago, but it was overkill for anything other than National Archive work (if you link to this thread, read some of my later posts where I describe some simplier techniques). You definitely do not want to spend time capturing the same footage two or three times. Over the years, I have tried the various filters that Johnny Roy already mentioned and all of them can work quite well. The Mike Crash filter has the advantage of working directly within Vegas, but it only addresses one type of noise (temporal noise, mostly the "snow" that is in the background of any VHS video). Very often, especially on video recorded in the six hour (EP) mode, the chroma noise is far worse. Fortunately, this can be very effectively eliminated using filters for VirtualDub or for AVISynth.

I provide details of how to use these two programs here:

Vegas Video Denoise for VHS

Here is another post:

VirtualDub Filter Chain for VHS

If you are unfamiliar with VirtualDub, I provided some details on how to use it here:

Using VirtualDub

mrBun wrote on 8/23/2005, 10:50 PM
Thanks all for the advice, I really appreciate your generosity in taking time to point me in the right direction.
This is the first time I have had to do this type of work, and I seriously doubt there will be too much demand for me anyway (I use Vegas for compiling animation and marrying it to audio....I work in game design as a sound designer primarily)....some of the client's material is dubbed from TV studios...way back when...so is second gen to start with, very little of it is even watchable....seeing it turn even worse when I dubbed it was depressing to say the least.
So.... thank you, I will dig in to your links in earnest, and see if I can make the proverbial silk purse ; )
trock wrote on 8/24/2005, 9:28 AM
One thing to bear in mind is that the TBC in the ADVC-300 is a line TBC rather than a full-frame TBC, similar to the line TBCs in the JVC VCR line (the ones with the Digipure system) most usually recommended for VHS capture They can often do a good job with top-flagging but not always and that's where a full-frame TBC comes in.

The Datavideo TBC-1000 and the AVT-8710 are the inexpensive ones most often recommended. There are also usually a bunch of pro TBCs on eBay for between $100 and $200.
baysidebas wrote on 8/25/2005, 9:02 AM
But in transfering video from a helical scan machine, a line TBC is what's going to provide the most benefit. Take a look at any vertical line in an image provided on tape playback. Is it smooth and straight, or does it look like a saw blade? A line TBC will correct the jaggies, a frame TBC will not.
johnmeyer wrote on 8/25/2005, 12:37 PM
A line TBC will correct the jaggies, a frame TBC will not.

Good point.
trock wrote on 8/25/2005, 1:08 PM
I was referring specifically to the flagging that can occur at the top of the screen. I have line TBCs and full frame TBCs and they each have their function. Sometimes I need one or the other, sometimes both, sometimes neither, depending on the condition of the original tape.
farss wrote on 8/25/2005, 4:47 PM
And for a cheap full frame TBC don't forget the old D8 camera.
One simple thing I've found usefull for SOME VHS problems in Vegas is Motion Blur. No use where there's lots of motion but titles that have fallen to bits due to over the top video levels respond well to 10 frames or more of MB.
Bob.
mrBun wrote on 10/10/2005, 3:51 PM
Sorry to revive an old thread... I just want to say thanks again JohnnyRoy. =)
Since posting this cry for help I have received no less than 4 jobs involving old vids from the late 70s-early80s... (client 1 spread the word)....
"If you want to invest some money, you can get a Canopus ADVC-300"
was your advice...I did invest and am just gobsmacked (technical term) by the quality of the result....It appears to have improved these venerable and ancient VHS relics to the point where I am compelled to write and say "Thanks mate!, good call"... I will throw an extra shrimp on the barbie in your honour.
cheers,
Geoff
p.s. thanks also johnmeyer it was your tutorials that made client 1 impressed enough to recommend me to his friends =)
farss wrote on 10/10/2005, 4:38 PM
Between my ADVC 300, the D8 camera and a few tricks in Vegas it is amazing the improvements that can be made.
Now that's the EASY part, finding plenty of work is easy to, finding clients who'll pay for the depreciation on you gear, your time and expertise, now that's the hard part.
"But it's only an old crappy video, it's not like it was made in a television station....", yeah right, if it was made in a television studio it'd be less than half the price but try getting them to grasp that little gem of wisdom.
Bob.
JJKizak wrote on 10/10/2005, 4:42 PM
One other thing to check on the striping--look very closely at the edges of the tape itself to see if it is double folded on the edge. Sometimes guides that are out of alignment in the camera will fold that tape just a tinch and when you play that tape back you get the lines on the bottom or possibly about 5 % of the image on the bottom screwed up along with the sound.

JJK
JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/10/2005, 7:12 PM
> Sorry to revive an old thread... I just want to say thanks again JohnnyRoy. =)

You are very welcome. Glad it worked out for you. Having the TBC and noise reduction really does help.

> I will throw an extra shrimp on the barbie in your honour.

Throw in a cold one while you’re at it mate. ;-)

~jr