Maybe I found a reason why GOPRo Hero files can give problems.
I think GOPro has sometimes a difficulty to write the exact rotation properties.
I made the last weeks a lot of videos with my GOPro 7 Hero Black with sometimes UDH and sometimes 2,7 K video's in as well AVC as HEVC.
Only one of those files gave me big trouble with VPro 16,17 and VMS Pl 16.
Everywhere the same problem at cropping the file a bit to set the horizon as it should be.
The program freezes and has to be closed through the taskmanager. See here my video how and where it happens in VP 17:
Here is the MediaINfo of that file, only one out of more than 10 hours video that is set to that strange rotation
That "two cents worth" post is useless and wrong. No, using variable shutter speed and ISO on the GoPro Hero8 does NOT result in VFR. The clip info in that post was for a Hero7, and it showed CFR. Has anyone posted a Hero8 clip that shows VFR? No. The clip I provided details for was shot using auto shutter and ISO and is CFR, like all the rest of the clips. The GoPro does use variable bitrates, btw, like almost all cameras.
In any case, the clips that cause crashing are not VFR, they are CFR, so this issue is irrelevant to the problem, as well as wrong. The point is that the CFR clips from my Hero8 coded in HEVC when imported en masse crash the program, and sometimes the computer. They do not have any strange "rotation". Again, they import into at least two other editors with no problem. There are two of us here experiencing this very problem.
@markr041 Just to second a point already made I can import a large number of GoPro clips into Adobe Premiere Pro and the free version of DaVinci Resolve with no issue at all. The crash of my desktop only happens when I import GoPro clips into Vegas 17. For me, if I use 16 my operating system does not crash but I cannot edit and Vegas dies if I try. The other software mentioned will edit the clips just fine. Vegas seems to have an issue with the GoPro codec that other editing platforms do not. Thanks to all posters for their input.
One other point to add: Vegas Pro 16 had the same problem with clips from the Yi 4K+ Action camera - crashing the program on import. And, again, no other editor had the problem. It took two updates to Vegas Pro 16 before that problem was fixed. There is something very peculiar about Vegas, and, btw, it is the only program I have used in the past decade that crashes, and not only when using GoPro clips.
@j-v The original poster and I have the exact same problem, as has been stated twice. In any case, I was not criticizing your post on rotation at all, just indicating that the problem you mentioned was not relevant to the problem stated in the original post - it was useful as a hypothesis, just unfortunately not the answer. I very much was criticizing the post claiming the GoPro shoots in VFR when one uses variable shutter speeds as both wrong and irrelevant, to be clear.
@cspvideo My problem is with Vegas unknown issues! I can be in the middle of an editing session (nothing to do with GoPro clips), carrying out something that I had done many times before and suddenly the program would freeze, never to return to be operational and thus requiring a program crash exit. This is Vegas Pro 17, was true in 16, 15, 14 and 13 (that's all I go back) and on different computers. But, we digress.
@markr041
Than I'm asking you what is wrong with my post here where you said: "That ...........post is useless and wrong" ?
My post clearly was addressed to the post starting with " Two Cents Worth", which I named (read my original post again - "That "two cents worth" post is useless and wrong.") - not your post. I also responded to your first defensive (and somewhat incoherent) post addressed to me by indicating which post I was referring to (on frame rates, which was not your post), and also indicating your post (on rotation) was a good attempt at solving the problem, though ultimately not a help. Do you get it? Your post was NOT "useless and wrong" and I never said it was. However, the post I quoted from you here is definitely useless and wrong!
I suggest you delete your last comment addressed to me, and I will delete my response, as neither is helpful to anybody else looking for solutions to Vegas Pro problems.
Well, I am the person being referred to about the "Two Cents Worth"...
Yes, the GoPro Hero's will adjust themselves to a VFR, even if MediaInfo does not show that. Where it really comes into play, is when you have the Shutter set at Auto, and continuously go into varying degrees of "needed exposure" for the camera's small sensor. It has been like this since the GoPro Hero 3+ Black, though that 4K video was shot in a frame rate of 14.985 (if I remember correctly - possibly not), so close enough to call it 15 fps. It took a lot of searching on why using that old GoPro looked so bad movement-wise, even compared to a Panasonic consumer camcorder that the best it shot was 1080i @ 29.97fps.
The pure problem with the GoPro's has always been it's extreme "Heavy-Handedness" on compression, both in AVC (H.264) and HEVC (H.265).
But from what I have experienced, in Vegas Pro (15 & 17), Vegas Movie Studio (14, 15, & 16), AND DaVinci Resolve (Basic) (12, 12.5, 14, 15, & 16) with the GoPro's, is that all the programs have had issues with the GoPros', especially since they went with using HEVC.
Though, I am sure that there are quite a few out there, after installing Vegas Pro/Movie Studio, and start dropping footage into their Media Bins and on the timeline, that they forget to actually "Activate" various codecs like HEVC, AAC, and others, as well as not having say the HEVC codec on their machine (DaVinci big problem with this!) for Windows 10. Yeah, just do the search for Barnacles Nerdgasm on YouTube for Windows 10 HEVC download. Those that use either the Intel or AMD HEDT platforms, and the AMD Mainstream (I do not know about the APU variants, as they have never been enticing to me) with Windows 10, do not have the HEVC within the iGPU like Intel's mainstream processors.
I have never used Adobe Premiere Pro/After Effects, Final Cut Pro (any version)/iMovie, and the host of many other editors out there. Though Hitfilm Express has had the same issues (I've been using that since first using Movie Studio 10, from Sony, shortly after retiring from the service in 2001). But, watching that fantastic video about Hitfilm Express by Mike Miller of Hitfilm University YouTube Channel about transcoding/proxies, along with the associated links to other helpful tools, has helped me tremendously. Whether proxy or intermediate, it still helps with these GoPro's (I would imagine the same with the highly compressed drone footage or other action cams). Plus, when Sony first started putting in that XAVC variant in their consumer products, it was difficult as well. And if all you use is Movie Studio, getting the free Sony Catalyst Browse to Transcode that XAVC file, unfortunately, Movie Studio does not accept that XAVC-I .mxf format - great for Vegas Pro though!
But, not all is lost. As one of the nice things about DaVinci Resolve, even the Basic version (or free, not paid, whatever you want to call it), is that you can do some very fast transcoding to Cineform, or Grass Valley (install the codec first), and even the DNxHD/R files for use in Vegas Pro/Movie Studio. You may or may not get the "Quicktime plug-in..." prompt, depending on version of Vegas Pro/Movie Studio. Go to the MovieStudioZen website and you can search Dr. Zen's tutorial on "rendering to DNxHD/R" to help.
So, yeah, this may seem a bit "Defensive", of which I am, but it is "bred" from all the "Growing Pains" I have had trying to learn things about photography/videography and the "What the Heck was/is this?" type of stuff. I do not listen to any one person on YouTube, forums, etc., but try to get an idea from what has been said/shown, then go and "Trial and Error" myself. Though, I seem to always be in the Error part, and occasionally, like a broken clock, am right once a day (retired military & military brat - so use the 24 Hour clock!). An example: there are a lot of YouTubers who do tutorials about recording in OBS, who "recommend" using the .mkv container, so when you have a loss of your recording or other problem, the file can be "restored" up to that point. Okay, then you do the "Muxing" within OBS afterwards to get a "video editing" compatible .mp4. Yet when you check out the MediaInfo for that "Muxed" file, it is VFR. Nobody says anything about that, but complain when they put that file into their NLE of choice. As listed earlier in this paragraph, retired military, of which I was an Engineer working with Boilers and Turbines, Air Conditioning, Heating Systems, Hydraulics, etc. I went from that to working in IT, with a big push towards TeleCommunications. So I do not have any "Formal" background at all in Photo or Video (start at basics of light and work your way through creating that Story, to "capturing it, to putting it out to the world to see), and have done all my learning through "Hands-On". Just wish @Musicvid, @john_dennis, @joelsonforte.br, @waag, and others would stop having links to so many great articles and informational Wiki sites as my browser folders are getting full with the links! :) Thanks!
So, people can interpret as they may, but I am NOT trying to say I am correct on things, but still learning as well, just like so many others. And the Mediainfo I posted, I do know that it showed a "Constant Frame Rate", but it also shows that I owned the product, and not some "Cut-Copy-Paste" from the Internet. The video shows that my skills as an editor and videographer have a lot to be desired, but I try. And, if wrong, then learn from it (provided the Irish/German in me doesn't get too stubborn! :) )
I like your post and your attitude about evidence (and about your post being criticized), but I am still skeptical that the GoPro Hero8 varies the frame rate. Like you, I am not going to take the word of some poster when I have evidence to the contrary (mediainfo). Can you point me to any evidence of your claim? I know that mediainfo is capable of showing if a clip is vfr - my Samsung Galaxy 9 videos are vfr, and mediainfo identifies them as such. But it shows all of my Hero8 clips as being cfr. So, what evidence can we see? Or, how do we identify vfr other than using mediainfo or another metadata reader? Is there a video player that shows frame rates in real time?
I Googled and could not find anyone else making your claim about vfr for the Hero8. I know this is off the track a bit (since even if the Hero8 is vfr that is not the reason Vegas Pro crashes when importing HEVC Hero8 clips), but it seems to me extremely important for a camera that is to film action - movement. VFR is awful. I will stick with my claim that your assertion about the GoPro Hero8 is wrong, given the evidence I have seen, but if you can demonstrate I am wrong I will freely admit it!
I can confirm that the old Hero 3+ black had a slightly weird 14.985 frame rate (29.97/2) reported by mediainfo, but it wasn't variable. I got rid of that camera long ago, but I don't think there was ever a VFR option (varying the shutter does not expressly imply variable frame rate. )
Other programs do have issues with GoPro footage (e.g. Davinci Resolve has support forum posts as recent as a week ago.)
I think what you are seeing is a camera that tries to get as much as possible from a tiny electronics package, and so tweaks the standards to suit themselves. If you combine that with constantly evolving (and sometimes flaky) hardware support for h264 and h265 from three sources (Intel QSV, Nvidia NVDEC, AMD decode) and its no wonder issues keep popping up.
Solution is to transcode and not worry about it further.
As I previously stated, I don’t have any Gopro device to test, but from the internet statement below, that user anyway believes that vfr may occur when set to 50/60 with AUTO LOW LIGHT enabled. As I understand it the camera then may or may not implement vfr if required by the lightning conditions.
Whats not completely clear to me from the .pdf manual statement below is whether it just drops to say 30 from 60 fps or shoots vfr similar to phones, probably vfr.
Auto Low Light isn’t an option for frame rates set at less than 50/60 as I understand it.
From the .pdf manual ...
Tech Specs: Video
AUTO LOW LIGHT
HERO7 Black can tell if there isn’t enough light for your shot and automatically lower the frame rate to improve video quality. This is especially helpful when you’re moving in and out of low-light conditions.
Auto Low Light is set to Auto by default. It works with all resolutions when shooting at 50 or 60 fps.
From inet ...
Auto Low Light
High framerates lead to worse low-light performance. Turning Auto Low light on lets the GoPro determine the framerate based on the amount of ambient light. The result are brighter, more detailed videos that have variable framerates. Auto Low Light supports all resolutions as long as you’re recording at 50 or 60fps.
Good find! Confirms my thinking that this not a pro camera, but an OK consumer camera that is trying to "do its best" within the limits of size and electronics. Given the circumstances in which it is used, maybe AUTO LOWLIGHT on by default is reasonable.
From the manual ...
Tech Specs: Video
AUTO LOW LIGHT
HERO7 Black can tell if there isn’t enough light for your shot and automatically lower the frame rate to improve video quality. This is especially helpful when you’re moving in and out of low-light conditions.
Auto Low Light is set to Auto by default. It works with all resolutions when shooting at 50 or 60 fps.
From inet ...
Auto Low Light
High framerates lead to worse low-light performance. Turning Auto Low light on lets the GoPro determine the framerate based on the amount of ambient light. The result are brighter, more detailed videos that have variable framerates. Auto Low Light supports all resolutions as long as you’re recording at 50 or 60fps.
This is good info from the manual. However, this is a feature you can turn off (I have). And if you do not, it will kick in only in low light when the setting is 50 fps or more. I agree it is also not obvious that even when activated it will act as a vfr, varying the frame rate continuously within a clip. In any case, it is a defeatable option and will never be seen in daylight clips or with frame rates less than 50 fps in any lighting condition even if not defeated. VFR is not happening in any of my HEVC videos, which Vegas cannot ingest. So, this is still not relevant to the OP issue.
Good find! Confirms my thinking that this not a pro camera, but an OK consumer camera that is trying to "do its best" within the limits of size and electronics. Given the circumstances in which it is used, maybe AUTO LOWLIGHT on by default is reasonable.
It is a good find. But having this as an option can hardly disqualify the camera as not pro. To the contrary, any pro will know to turn it off while it is expected that most non-pro's will want the feature but are not so interested in learning about video or paying attention to settings. What is not pro is if it is not defeatable.
What is true is that GoPro is trying to appeal to both Pros and consumers, who I guess they think are not so concerned about motion artifacts compared with noise. There is no doubt GoPros are used by both groups.
I certainly agree that "pro" or not is a matter of perspective and opinion. I owned one in the past, but hated the image and many other aspects (battery life). Maybe I will give one of the newer ones a try. I like the stabilization!
My only real point is that because these kinds of issues with NLE / camera incompatibilities are likely to be with us for the foreseeable future, it is good for an editor to have a "toolkit" of solutions and workarounds - including transcoding footage that misbehaves.
I can confirm that the old Hero 3+ black had a slightly weird 14.985 frame rate (29.97/2) reported by mediainfo, but it wasn't variable. I got rid of that camera long ago, but I don't think there was ever a VFR option (varying the shutter does not expressly imply variable frame rate. )
Other programs do have issues with GoPro footage (e.g. Davinci Resolve has support forum posts as recent as a week ago.)
I think what you are seeing is a camera that tries to get as much as possible from a tiny electronics package, and so tweaks the standards to suit themselves. If you combine that with constantly evolving (and sometimes flaky) hardware support for h264 and h265 from three sources (Intel QSV, Nvidia NVDEC, AMD decode) and its no wonder issues keep popping up.
Solution is to transcode and not worry about it further.
No, the solution is for Magix to fix their program. We have already reported that the same clips that immediately crash Vegas (just at the import stage for gosh sakes) work perfectly in Edius and In Resolve. This is a Vegas Pro problem. Transcoding is more work (time) and the resulting files takes up an enormous amount of space if you do not want to suffer generation loss. A better immediate solution is to drop Vegas, since past experience suggests that Magix does not fix even basic problems in a timely manner.
Ahh, so now we know what you wanted along....have a moan and then stomp off. Fine by me :)
But for other readers, pick whatever NLE you want, but beware the new online sport of endless software jumping.
I am a 19 year user of Vegas. I like the interface. I tolerated a long list of annoying bugs that are never addressed but not fatal. For example try saving more than 100 still frames from video on the timeline. Or if you have an audio program export the audio on your timeline directly into it and apply an fx. Bring it back as a wave and the pitch is altered. These date back 5 versions. However, there are an increasing number of bugs that simply halt the software for no obvious reason. The GoPro issue is a symptom of a much larger issue. I would prefer to use the software but I cannot for many of my current projects. We are all expressing viewpoints from our own filters. No one holds an unreasonable position here. Let's agree to accept advice, opinion or input in the spirit of the intention of a user forum. My choice to point out flaws in the software is my attempt to be helpful. I am fortunate to have access to other software packages to offer comparisons for the benefit of all.
I am exactly in agreement with cspvideo, and share the same experience (past and present) - I have been a steady user of Vegas Pro from Sony days through Vegas Pro 17. It is my preferred editor. I produce a lot of videos. But, as was said, Vegas has more basic bugs - actual crashes! - than any editor I have used and now there are more choices.
What I find very unhelpful here (besides defensiveness - you know who you are) is just the provision of cumbersome - time- and space-consuming - workarounds rather than some settings fix within Vegas (eg, choose hardware decoding, defeat hardware encoding, change max video RAM or whatever). Absent that, full support as we ask for a fix from Magix is helpful. We want to stay with Vegas, but that is getting increasingly more difficult. Am I also venting a bit about the program? - sure, but the experience of sitting down to edit a video and not being able to even import clips is ridiculous, and it is costly.
The GoPro problem is not some minor issue - GoPro is a ubiquitous camera, HEVC is a standard codec - and we know the problem is not GoPro's since three other major editors (at least) do not have the issue using the same computers.
So, to edit GoPro videos I simply cannot use Vegas Pro. That is not "stomping off," that is a necessity (again transcoding is simply ludicrous nowadays as a standard workflow given powerful computers and high values of time for editors (space too to a lesser extent). And I still use Vegas to edit video from almost all my other cameras (I hope that the next update includes ProRes RAW).
Here's a GoPro video I produced using Edius yesterday, after I spent a lot of time trying to load scores of clips into Vegas:
And here is a recent non GoPro video I produced using Vegas:
I am not defending Vegas, and in fact I am mostly in agreement with your assessment of the current state of affairs. What I am saying is that you are wasting everyone's time "venting" (your words) when you have already decided it is necessary to move on (which in your case it probably is) and have no patience for workarounds.
So with all due respect, forget the "entertainment" of forum arguments so just do whatever it is you are going to do. I mean that kindly and sincerely.
I am not defending Vegas, and in fact I am mostly in agreement with your assessment of the current state of affairs. What I am saying is that you are wasting everyone's time "venting" (your words) when you have already decided it is necessary to move on (which in your case it probably is) and have no patience for workarounds.
So with all due respect, forget the "entertainment" of forum arguments so just do whatever it is you are going to do. I mean that kindly and sincerely.
No you don't - it is well known finding in psychology that when someone says he is being kind, the opposite is true. Telling someone he is "wasting everyone's time" is not only offensive, it is untrue in this case (I have evidence of that that I will not share with you).
You are the one wasting everyone's time with this post.
I came here to find a solution to a major problem with Vegas Pro, not having made up my mind to move on - I have deadlines, so without a fix, I moved on for now. I preferred a fix. One person offered an incorrect diagnosis of the problem, I responded to that (GoPro vfr obfuscation). It was offered sincerely, just was not correct. And someone provided useful material on why one could think the Hero8 is vfr.
Another poster offered a dismissive workaround (oh, just transcode and be done with it), and I responded why it is not suitable for anyone who shoots video seriously and in volumes (note I do not keep track of who said what, it is irrelevant - I just care about what was said). One is talking about files sizes about 17 times larger for close-to-lossless intermediate files. My West Lake project had 17 GBs of GoPro HEVC files; that would become - do the math - 256 GBs of additional files. On my fastest computer that transcode process would take 17 minutes. In the field (while traveling), it would take about 45 minutes on my portable computer, for which I would have to have additional external storage. Or, I could just switch editors, which I do not want to do.
I was very happy to hear that I was not alone in my experience in using GoPro HEVC files and Vegas; that was helpful in identifying the problem. Given the information in the posts, it is clear the GoPro HEVC issue I experienced in Vegas Pro was not me, was not my multiple computers, and was not GoPro. It is Vegas Pro. For those who are of sound mind and can think straight, they also learned along with me where the problem is and where it is not. They also learned there is no easy fix, assuming (as I do) that people posting here are very knowledgeable.
Well, as no one here has a within-Vegas fix, for now, I use Edius for GoPro video (and for ProRes RAW) and Vegas for everything else, get it? I have "not moved on."