Creating PAL and NTSC output

Per1 wrote on 6/20/2007, 10:45 AM

I'm trying to make one DVD for PAL and one for NTSC of the same footage. Is the following procedure the correct one? (The filming was in PAL).

1. Capture (PAL) DV tape to Vegas using Vegas Capture.

2. Start a PAL DV (720x576) project in Vegas + do all the "needed stuff" to the imported AVI-files

3. Render as "DVD Architect PAL video stream" to get mpeg2-file for PAL

4. Render as "DVD Architect NTSC video stream" to get mpeg2-file for NTSC

5. Render as AC-3 audio to support both DVD-versions.

6. Start PAL project in DVDA and make a PAL DVD master

7. Start a NTSC project in DVDA and make a NTSC DVD master

Correct?

Is there any need to set the project properties in Vegas to PAL or NTSC depending on the "target" system (PAL, NTSC)? Or can one keep it on PAL *all* the time and let Vegas do it "magic" at render and DVDA at generation of DVD-master?

Comments

Mahesh wrote on 6/20/2007, 3:27 PM

Yes, absolutely.
No need to change project settings. Keep that as PAL 720 x 576. ( because that's what you got.

'Render as' settings will take care of PAL / NTSC streams.

Good Luck

Per1 wrote on 6/20/2007, 4:17 PM

Thanks!

I just FTP'ed some small ISO images to "NTSC country" for testing - will be interesting.

Is there any portable DVD-player with screen today that only can play NTSC so that one can test if NTSC encoded dics works properly.

Any brand that only supports NTSC? Where to buy?

Chienworks wrote on 6/20/2007, 7:32 PM

Probably most any player purchased in the USA will be NTSC only. On the other hand, i wouldn't really worry about it. If you put an NTSC disc in the player it's going to either play it as NTSC or not play it at all. Just because the player supports PAL doesn't mean that it will read NTSC discs where an NTSC only player wouldn't. If that makes sense ...

teaktart wrote on 6/20/2007, 9:46 PM

I'm doing the exact same thing in reverse so to speak.....

Starting with NTSC footage and wanting NTSC and PAL dvds as well....

I made my dvd menu for NTSC first and then made my discs

Opened the same project in DVDA and then saved as "PAL" version (changed the project name) and then went in and "replaced" each mpeg file with the PAL version of that same mpeg file and saved the project again.

I also changed the properties setting to PAL when I made the PAL version so the preview looked better.

I now have the exact same dvd menu structure, etc. with PAL files instead of NTSC and didn't have to re-create the whole dvd menu.

Since I pre-rendered everything in Vegas before going to DVDA preparing and burning the PAL dvd went really fast. And, I can now easily burn either type of disc from each seperate DVDA project file.

I also noticed that when I was in the South Pacific and New Zealand where PAL is the standard all their dvd players played my NTSC dvds just fine. I don't think that works in reverse, however....as per Chienworks comments...

Teaktart

Mahesh wrote on 6/21/2007, 12:49 AM

>>Is there any portable DVD-player with screen today that only can play NTSC so that one can test if NTSC encoded dics works properly<<

Most PAL players would play NTSC DVD as PAL-60. i.e pseudo PAL at 25 fps rather than 30 fps.

It's the TV set that has to be able to handle this format. All modern ones do. My precious edit monitor can not. It's circa 1985, 20" Toshiba probably assembled by someone who took pride in his /her work.

PAL-60 on this TV does fill the whole screen.

Bit Of Byte wrote on 6/21/2007, 5:05 AM

Per1.

Yoou mentioned :

"2. Start a PAL DV (720x576) project in Vegas + do all the "needed stuff" to the imported AVI-files.."

What do u mean "do all the "needed stuff" to the imported AVI-files.."

Bit

Per1 wrote on 6/22/2007, 1:53 AM

Bit:

"needed stuff" = edits in Vegas.

Some of the pro Sony cams recorded small small vertical black strips to the left and right so I have, e.g., to crop the image to get rid of these.

Per1 wrote on 6/22/2007, 1:57 AM

teaktart:

OK, so you are originating from one DVDA project and change some parameters and film-clips?

When you go from PAL (576) to NTSC (480) isn't some "height" in the total display area for menus etc lost so you have to rearrange text etc.?

(I guess this is a DVDA issue and shout be dealt with on DVDA thread... ;) )

MichaelS wrote on 6/22/2007, 6:46 AM

I, too, recently had to tackle the conversion process for the first time. All indications are that everything worked as needed. But to underscore the previous post, I sent both PAL and NTSC to Europe in the package as a safety precaution. I believe my customer was able to play the NTSC, in addition to the PAL.

There are so many variables that are uncontrollable, such as the machine the discs will be played on, I always lean toward the "too much" rather than "not enough" philosophy of customer service. You may want to "swing" both ways.

Per1 wrote on 6/22/2007, 9:25 AM

MichaelS,

yeah, it's a mess with all "target systems" - TV resolution, TV dimensions, 4:3, 16:9, ... etc.

I went to a TV shop and tried out a made DVD on their sets - well, depending on display it looked everyting from "not good" to "fairly good". One thing was clear though - you'd never get close to TV broadcasting quality - even if we used 50 kUSD camcorders. I wonder what they are using when they get that perfect image?

Do they use better cams? Do they have better editing software? What do they do to get that perfect image?

teaktart wrote on 6/22/2007, 10:42 AM

PERE1
I think its more the "density" of the resolution that is different on the tv screen, i.e. more lines. I don't notice any screen size difference.

I shot my stuff with a HDV cam so both my NTSC and PAL versions are widescreen and look the same when viewing on my monitor here.

Yes,
I started with my original DVDA project (NTSC) and then opened and saved that with a different name.
I then have two 'projects' with different names but the exact same videos and menu structure.
THEN I go and change out ("replace") the NTSC mpegs for my PAL mpegs, leaving the audio AC-3 files in place as they are exactly the same for each format)

Save again....this newly created PAL version of the DVDA project

And I now have two DVDA projects that are identical except for the video files which are the only difference ... NTSC and PAL

Per1 wrote on 6/22/2007, 10:59 AM

teaktart,

>I think its more the "density" of the resolution that is different on the tv screen

Is this a result of better cams or editing software or "the right parameters in any software" do you think? If 50 kUSD cams can't deliver - what should one use to get that perfect image?

Thanks for input re. DVDA and NTSC/PAL generation.

About file-replacement, here a tricky I use for DTP-programs doing multiple versions that might work with video too:

Place PAL clips in a folder named "PAL"
Place NTSC clips in a folder named "NTSC"
Make a folder called INPUT that is used by DVDA
Make the project in DVDA using clips placed in INPUT folder
When PAL version is made, just dump NTSC media into INPUT folder and reopen DVDA to generate NTSC version, it should auto-update and one does not have to replink clips.

To save copying time one can instead alternate the folder names for PAL and NTSC with INPUT.

teaktart wrote on 6/23/2007, 2:32 PM

Per1:
By 'density' of tv screen I mean a PAL tv has 720 x 576 lines on the screen
and NTSC has 720 x 480 lines on the tv screen so the PAL tv has always been a bit better than a NTSC tv because of the more 'dense' number of lines on the screen

This is completely independent of what camera you shot/shoot with....
Vegas can take your cam footage and output in many different formats, i.e. NTSC and PAL for example, it will do the magic of converting by chosing your "render as" template

My little Canon HV10 puts out some gorgeous footage when conditions are right and its now going for under $1000 so you don't really need to spend a fortune to play in the HDV arena!

I think your file method would work just fine. I guess I'd rather not have to drag files in and out of a folder when I change the type of disc (PAL or NTSC) I want to burn so made them completely seperate DVDA projects with different names, i.e. "PALproject" and "NTSCproject"

If you set up your DVDA project and then go into your project "media properties" window for each of your menu items (videos)

Click on your "track media" tab and click on your Video file (mpeg) and then click on the drop down menu arrow on the far right you will find the first menu item to "replace"

Click on this and then find the video file you want to change/replace
You can leave the audio as is, as this does not change when swapping out PAL for NTSC or visa versa.

Now I can just open either DVDA project (PAL or NTSC)and not have move files around.

Your method may vary....

Have fun!