Custom Render Settings to match original AVCHD

JoeBW wrote on 1/24/2012, 11:25 AM
I’ve just purchased VMS11 build 283. After playing with it for a day or so I have come across a problem I can't seem to solve. I've read that to avoid ghosting it's vital to ensure that the render settings match the original footage exactly, but here is where the problem arises...

My footage is from a Sony HX100V camera (UK version) and I always use the highest quality setting (named 'PS' on this camera). Using info displayed in VMS the footage is AVCHD, 1920x1080, 26 Mbps, 50fps (double PAL) Field order: None (progressive scan), with audio 256kbps, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, Dolby AC-3. File extension is .mts

Now, although I may wish to export some projects at lower-quality settings for sharing etc. my primary goal is to be able to edit my movies and store the results in identical quality to the original.

In the ‘Render As’ box, none of the templates match exactly the above settings, so I have tried to save a custom one with these settings. This is where there seems to be a problem. Whatever I set that is as close as possible to the above settings will save OK as a new template, but then when you try to use it to render, immediately a box pops up saying “An error occurred while creating the media file ..... An invalid argument was specified”. It seems to be impossible to save (and use) a custom template with settings that match my original footage.

The closest built-in template appears to be the one named “HD 1920x1080-50p” in the section “Sony AVC/MVC” but although the bit rate shows as 25,999,360, the resulting rendered file is only approx 19-21 Mbps, not 26 Mbps (and the file format is mp4). So, this must surely be introducing some compression – which would not be good if I ever want to re-import this render into a new project in future.

In the Custom Settings box when creating a new template, if you choose MPEG-2 (.m2ts) on the System tab, then you can’t even choose a frame rate higher than 25 and a bit rate higher than 16,000,000 on the Video tab.

Can anyone help on how to solve this? I can’t believe that when using Sony software to edit footage from a Sony camera, it doesn’t fully support keeping the footage in its original highest quality format.

Many thanks
Joe

Comments

alain38330 wrote on 1/26/2012, 2:32 AM
Hi Joe, welcome to the club.

I am using VMS10 for a year now and after a lot of readings I learned rendering problems are closed to be the same in VM10 and VMS11 (and even in previous releases).

So you may wish to read the following which are my today's conclusions relative to VMS10:

1) there is no way to avoid a re-compression of my AVCHD 24M/s files from my Sony camcorder (HDR CX550): no "smart rendering" whatever my AVCHD model is.

2) I can create AVCHD 16M/s (pal/50ips) with the Sony profile but as soon as the render overpass a few minutes it becomes:
- choppy
- out of sync
- not re-importable in VMS (it crashes when I load it or read it on the time-line)

the only way I found to read it correctly is to copy it with TsMuxer (but the resulting file remains not re-importable in VMS).

3) I tried different settings with the Main Concept models to increase the bitrate but then:
- on short renders I get a readable file with interlaced issues (on my different players)
- on long renders (over 2 or 4G / I do not remember) I was always getting at the very end an "unknown error" with a resulting file un-readable.

and in any case there is a full re-calculation of the video

4) I can render for blu-ray under mpeg high bitrate but of course VMS10 is re-calculating the entire video


Coming from the DV world, I was searching a solution to "archive" a "clean" video for further use...
I finally found one...I bought a 2 teras HDD to keep the rushes!

...and by the way, I always use Sony PMB to capture the files from my Sony camcorder otherwise I loose the GPS infos associated to the rushes...

Surprising from Sony to release 24Mb/s (or more) camcorder and then push the customer to a 16Mb/s render which is not usable as it is.
JoeBW wrote on 1/27/2012, 3:59 PM
Hi Alain

Thanks for posting your thoughts on this. I have also looked at some of your other posts and see that you have had problems which I have not had ... yet!! (probably because I have only been using VMS11 for a few days, and only with short clips). I also see you have two very high-spec machines - so with such a good spec you would certainly hope not to have all these issues.

There is such a myriad of possible render settings, it is totally impossible to try every combination that is available. And it seems, from your experience, that even if you find one which you think is good (for a short test clip) then perhaps when you come to use it on a longer project it will fail.... not great.

Thanks for suggesting tsMuxer (as have other people too) - I shall know what to try if I have those particular problems. I had not heard of it before.

I am now trying some of the templates under the MainConcept MPEG-2 heading, in particular the one named 'Blu-ray 1920x1080-24p, 25 Mbps video stream' but I have customised it to give 50 fps and to include audio. This seems to give good results (for short clips), with a filesize very similar to the original. It also seems OK to re-import it into VMS.

I am no expert, and I have no idea what some of the possible options in this template mean. Also, I don't know if it will continue to work fine if I come to render a 10-minute project. Have not tried yet.

I suppose one problem is that everybody has different aims when using VMS for editing. My mine objective is to join together lots of short clips, maybe add a few fairly basic transitions, and music, and then keep a 'best-quality' output to watch on the computer. I'm not that bothered about producing blu-rays just now, but perhaps that may change in the future.

Thanks again for your suggestions.
D7K wrote on 1/27/2012, 4:20 PM
Perhaps its your i5. Have you checked with some program like CPUthermometer (its free) - is it heating up? I had problems with a fast 4 core and aftermarket cooler until I upgraded my processor. now long renders with 10 tracks are working fine.
alain38330 wrote on 1/28/2012, 10:47 AM
I have been doing my tests on my 3 computers:

- AMD Athlon 64x2 4400+ 2.21 GHz/4GB Ram under Wxp Home 32Bits

- I7 Q740@1.73GHz/8GB Ram (Sony VAIO VPCF13C5E) W7 Home Premium +64bits (CUDA)

- I7 CPU 950 @ 3.07GHz, Ram: 6G, W7 Home Premium +64bits (CUDA)

...same results...same places the rendered video start to be choppy...same out of sync...only difference is processing time to render.

I cannot exclude the computer cause (having been in IT for so long!) but my opinion is: "one, or more probably, several bugs in VMS10".
This being said I still like very much this software
JoeBW wrote on 2/21/2012, 2:29 PM
When I saw this line:

"Updated Sony AVC format render template customization to support AVCHD 2.0"

in the release notes for Build 295 I thought "ahhh, hopefully that is answer to my original question here". However, after updating to build 295 I can't see any different options. Is it me being blind or has nothing changed in the render templates?

Could anyone confirm... perhaps I'm missing something, as there are so many options in the render templates.
Markk655 wrote on 2/21/2012, 7:27 PM
As you've heard, VMS will always re-encode during rendering AVCHD. It does not "smart render".

Try rendering a small clip with your custom template. Does that work? If so, try a larger clip. If not, try using the closest default template. Does that work? I think it is important to assess whether this is a memory error or a template error. I'm not sold on it as a template issue.
JoeBW wrote on 2/22/2012, 3:44 AM
Personally I'm not actually having any problems, using a customised template, with a clip up to 9 mins (longest that I have tried so far).

I'm just curious as to what has changed in build 295 described as "Updated Sony AVC format render template customization to support AVCHD 2.0"

Could anyone clarify what in fact has been changed by this update?