Cyclic Redundancy Error

dornier wrote on 1/6/2006, 7:34 PM
Ok, I just had about 2300 ft of 8mm film transferred into AVI to import for a project. ( i don't have the $$ or the equipment to facilitate the conversion myself).

When I picked up the order I was given 3 dv tapes (as backups) and "9" DVD discs, each with a MONSTER 4 gig avi file on it.

While trying to copy the media files from disc to drive I keep getting hung around the 80% point with a "cyclic redundancy error".

I tried simply inserting the avi files into DVDA (insert media) to see if they'd be viewable as an entire clip and THEY ARE. They seem to work fine right off the DVD drive.

I just can't seem to get them to copy.



I'm sure you all know the cost associated with this type of order so any good homework would really help me get things in order when I contact the editing house.

Thanks as always.

jim


ps. this is the first time working with such old material. is there a recommended fps setting for this to help keep things looking smooth?

Comments

fldave wrote on 1/6/2006, 7:52 PM
CRC is meant to validate the file saved is what is copied, and I believe is based on size. The corruption is either in the discs or the process of copying.

Bad Drive? Do you have another drive you can copy from? I find it strange that all nine dvd's have the same error. Is there a difference between Apple and Windows avi's?

Obviously, you paid a lot of money for nine DVDs, the supplier should deliver what you needed.
dornier wrote on 1/6/2006, 8:10 PM
I've only got one DVD drive to move them onto my rig.

I don't think the data is corrupted as I can preview them in DVDA if I simply insert them as piece of media. Of course it isn't edited or worked on, but I'm able to see that the old movies did transfer to optical media okay.

Has anyone copies such large files onto their harddrive before?

jrazz wrote on 1/6/2006, 8:59 PM
I was copying a DVD from one of our church member's mission work in Africa. The DVD would not play in a lot of players and when I tried to copy it, I kept getting the Cyclic Redundancy Error... I tried reading it slower and then I tried ripping it using some freeware. 3 days later it was at about 80 percent with about 3 percent copied in error. I did not think it should take that long and I did not think that 3 percent of 4.4gigs was good either. I did some searches on google and it is either A. a bad disc, or B. a bad drive. Mine turned out to be a bad drive. I looked on Dealnews.com got 10% off coupon at Bestbuy and drove there, got an external firewire burner came home, ripped it no problem. It was my drive.
If you can, borrow someone's external drive to test it or try using this program: isobuster- to copy bit by bit; but be prepared for it to take a long time.

j razz
dornier wrote on 1/6/2006, 9:05 PM
well, i just used the drive last night to burn another dvd project in the works.

it went just fine.

and, don't forget that I'm able to view the file directly from the disc if i insert it into DVDA (without getting to edit it of course).

jrazz wrote on 1/6/2006, 9:08 PM
Yeah,
My drive works great... for some discs. I get the CR errors randomly now on that drive, when before I did not get them at all. I also can put the same disc in my new external drive and have no problem. I could play the dvd on my other drive, but after a while it would slow down, stutter, etc. I put it in the new one and no problems. Latest firmware and everything.

j razz
dornier wrote on 1/6/2006, 9:11 PM
well,

I guess i'll have to call the shop and ask what brand it's on--can't tell with the white labels.

how long should it take to copy a 4 gig avi to a hard drive? never done one that long before.
jrazz wrote on 1/6/2006, 9:17 PM
White labels? Stick on labels? That could be your problem. you could also do a quick check on google for a disc identifier tool to see what brand/type/dye, etc the disc is. If it is stick on labels, that could make the disc wobble and give the CR error. Since you have 9 of them, try peeling one of the labels off. if there are bits left on the disc after you peel them off use a toothbrush and water to remove the remainder. Make sure there is no sticky residue or it could get stuck inside your burner.

j razz
dornier wrote on 1/6/2006, 9:19 PM
scratch that. they're white screened for printing, not labels.


so why would a disc not copy but be viewable direct from itself in the architect?
jrazz wrote on 1/6/2006, 9:34 PM
Beats me, unless it is less scrutinizing for playback than it is for copying. I know that CR does a check of data integrity. I know this happens when you go to copy a file. I don't think it does this when it goes to read a file. Therein may lie the problem. If it does not check when playing, of course it is not going to throw the error up; but if it does check, of which I am doubtful, then I am wrong and should be pitied as the lowest of all land dwelling creatures... okay, maybe it is just time for me to get some sleep : ) I just rendered a file and can't find it. I swore I overwrote the old one but the old one is still the old one. What a night!

j razz
dornier wrote on 1/6/2006, 9:36 PM
jrazz thanks for the help.

I just remembered i have another box here with a dvd drive on it.

It copied fine to that machine's hdd (must be my dvd drive i suppose).

I'm in the process of moving over to my editing box to test the file. I'll report back later.
dornier wrote on 1/7/2006, 10:57 AM
Well, 4 discs worked fine on the other machine, but 2 or three are experiencing an MSDOS type error now.

I don't think it's the machines or the drive. I'm leaning toward the discs.

fldave wrote on 1/7/2006, 11:11 AM
Is the drive you are copying to an NTFS drive or a FAT32? I don't think FAT32 will hold files > 2 GB.
dornier wrote on 1/7/2006, 11:15 AM
NTSF. Each drive used in my tests are NTSF 30+gb drives running under Win2k.

I know the integrity on at least 3 of the 9 discs (haven't seen them all yet) preview fine, so I could really use an old guru here in the ways of a DOS shell perhaps?

jrazz, you ever find that rendered project? that post was too funny.
jrazz wrote on 1/7/2006, 6:22 PM
yeah, I found it. I selected NTSC DVD Format and it made an m2t file I believe. I meant to select DVD Architect NTSC Video Template. So, yeah, I found it and have completed the project. Sorry, I don't know anything about DOS and it appears I am all answered out!
Hope someone else can throw a ray of hope on this for you.

j razz
Laurence wrote on 1/7/2006, 8:23 PM
I just don't think writable DVDs are a good way to back up data. They are rated for 75 to 100 years, but my experience tells me that they might be good for a year to a year and a half tops, and that's with the best media. Mini-DV tape is a much more reliable medium for long term storage.
rmack350 wrote on 1/7/2006, 8:51 PM
Here is a link to an article on the topic:

http://www.softwarepatch.com/tips/cyclic-redundancy.html

Sounds to me like the discs aren't well made and you should be going back to the company that supplied them and either asking for new discs or suppying them with a USB or 1394 drive to put them on.

Since you've had varying success with two readers I'd make a guess that at least one of them isn't too robust. But since even the best reader can't read all the discs I'd definitely aske for new ones.

In the mean time you should try to search for firmware updates for your drives to make sure they're up to date. My own burner was pretty lousy until I updated it. You might also suggest to this vendor that they consider a firmware update or new burner altogether. However, don't mention to them that you harbor any doubts about your own hardware. Just tell them their discs are bad.

Rob Mack
SimonW wrote on 1/8/2006, 3:27 AM
Dornier, if you can drag the files straight from the DVD to DVD Architect, have you tried dragging them onto the Vegas timeline? You could drag them onto the timeline and then just render out a new file to your hard drive.

I have come across a cyclic redundancy error before, and it too was occurring when I tried to copy large files from a DVD. The disc makes were all different. The only constant was that they were burned on my colleagues DVD drive. So it might not be the discs that are at fault, but the device that burned them.
MarkWWW wrote on 1/8/2006, 7:00 AM
This sounds like it's the discs to me too.

You may find that a CD/DVD data recovery program like IsoBuster (www.isobuster.com) will be able to allow you to get all or most of these files copied onto your hard drive. IsoBuster is partly free and partly paid-for, but I think the facilities included in the free version should suffice to recover the files for you.

Mark
dornier wrote on 1/8/2006, 3:55 PM
Well,

I picked up an external DVD drive (LG brand) to try one more item in my control study.

If this bombs then I've got a solid case against the video house.

I suppose if they'd consider cutting the AVI's down to smaller sizes that might help too.

I'll report back later.