Decklink SP - Clarifiaction please!

mikelinton wrote on 1/30/2005, 11:19 AM

Okay... so I'm still not 100% clear on what the limitations are of using a Decklink SP Card, with Vegas. Here's what I need to do, and if someone could let me know how this works and what the limiations are with Vegas, I'd really appreciate it.

90% of our acquisition is DVCAM... however, sometimes we are presented with footage shot on BetaSP, and need to capture and cut to SP for TV broadcast. Traditionally, we have done this by capturing through a DV converter, editing DV, then simply running the FireWire back out to the coverter to the BetaSP deck... which works fine, and 90% of the time no one ever notices a difference... BUT it's still just DV... and I can buy 2 Decklink cards for the price of one good DV Converter.

What I WANT to do, is be able to capture from BetaSP uncompressed, edit uncompressed, and output uncompressed to the SP Deck as much as possible.

The other thing we will have to do, is capture and edit DV, but output to SP - which will happen more often than not...

Also, I often need to cut in graphics and animations produced in AfterEffects, and would like to render those out to the Decklink codec, and not have to re-render everything if possible... what we do now is render out uncompressed, and let Vegas handle the compression - which is a big improvment in quality over the Microsoft Codec. But I'd still like to utilize 10bit color, or at the very least leave it uncompressed.

What limitations are there using the Decklink Card? Basically, I want to get around using DV where possible, and when it's required, keep the footage as uncompressed and (preferably) 10bit as possible... but still edit in Vegas...

That's a lot of info, but basically I just want some help explaining what the workflow limitations are...

Thanks so much guys!

Mike.

Comments

Trichome wrote on 1/30/2005, 11:54 AM

yes exactly!!!!

Coursedesign wrote on 1/30/2005, 2:27 PM

Vegas works great for editing uncompressed, as long as your disks are fast enough. Given that, uncompressed is often snappier than DV, because Vegas doesn't have to uncompress and recompress every frame.

For output through the DeckLink, you currently need to use their deck control app, can't do it directly from within Vegas. (The much more expensive SD Connect box is needed for full RS-422 deck control from within Vegas.)

Straight cuts in Vegas are OK with 10-bit codecs. Transitions and effects will output 8-bit currently, even though the internal arithmetic has higher precision. AE can work with DeckLink's codecs, so this should be fine.

Just be sure to check the DeckLink web site for minimum hardware specs for working with 10-bit uncompressed. If you fulfill that, it will work 100.00% of the time, in my experience.

mikelinton wrote on 1/30/2005, 5:49 PM

Thanks for the info! So, what is the workflow then to output a project from Vegas? Can you simply manually cue the deck, use the print to tape function and hit record straight out of Vegas? Or do you have to export the timeline to an AVI First, then use their deck control app?

As for system requirements, looks like I'll have to toss in an extra GB of RAM, but otherwise should be OK.

Thanks for the input!

rmack350 wrote on 1/30/2005, 6:38 PM

Mike,

So, we're assuming you have the 64bit PCI slot on your motherboard.

Basically, you'd edit and render in Vegas and then use the decklink software to print the file to tape. Pretty simple. You just need to make sure you have the throughput for both the board and your disk array.

I don't know that I'd worry about ten-bit color. Digital systems have been 8-bit for years and it's never been an obstacle to broadcast. Yes, it'd be nice to have it but it's not a show stopper by any means.

But just to clarify, I don't have a decklink card. You might also try crosspoting this on the Cow. I think Donatello has a decklink card. Always good to get more real world experience in your responses.

Rob Mack

mikelinton wrote on 1/30/2005, 7:28 PM

Hi Rob... Yah, 10bit isn't a big deal - really what is, is uncompressed, especially for graphics. I'm finding stuff can suffer pretty heavily even when rendered to DV, even with the Sony DV Codec... Don't have a 64Bit PCI enabled board, but that's a small investment...

So, from what you said then I'd have to render it all down to a Decklink Codec file, and print it to tape with their software?

I'll go hunt around on the Cow and see what I can dig up... I haven't really been able to get much clarification on exactly what workflow limitations there will be... if I get some concrete info, I'll post it on here for others.

Thanks!

rmack350 wrote on 1/30/2005, 10:19 PM

I'm remembering a bit more clearly what Donatello had said about the decklink cards. I don't think he has one but he hasrendered to BMD codecs and then brought the files on a hard disk to a ficility that does have a card. They output the program there.

There is a decklink forum over on the cow. It might be useful to read through posts and ask some questions there.

You can download the BMD codec from their site and use it in Vegas now just to try things out. The missing link in all this is sending an SD signal out to a studio monitor. I think that Vegas might still be limited to outputting DV25 for preview. That's not so nice if you're trying to make 4:2:2 video or better.

Rob Mack

Coursedesign wrote on 1/31/2005, 8:51 AM

For more info, see my previous posts on this. I'm using a DeckLink Extreme in a SuperMicro workstation.

As often noted, Vegas currently can only preview through DV25 firewire.

I check my video on a pro NTSC monitor hooked up to my DeckLink card. I actually check it that way both during shooting and when I'm unsure of something while editing. In both cases the NTSC monitor is fed from the Deck Control app.

I can also look at the video from Combustion, which can set a viewport through the DeckLink. Combustion also has a good (Oscar-winning) primary color corrector.

With these checks, I feel confident that the Vegas preview is fine for getting the footage (what is it outside the U.S? meterage?) to flow.

I am of course hoping that Sony has seen the light, that 4:2:2 is important if they want to get more pros to use Vegas. More pros will drive more sales to everybody else too, that's just how this market works.

How much was it worth to Apple to have Walter Murch edit on FCP? At least tens of millions of dollars I would think, not in sales to feature film producers but to everybody else. It's all about credibility.

rmack350 wrote on 1/31/2005, 9:12 AM

You know, I went back to look at the Vegas prefs for the video device. You do get the option of outputting to a video for windows compliant card in a variety of formats. So I'd think that getting playback from Vegas through the Decklink card is at least in the realm of possibilities, someday.

But you're right, you can do checks later on, outside of Vegas. You just need to build it all into your workflow.

Rob Mack