Declink SP and Vegas

GaryAshorn wrote on 5/13/2004, 12:53 PM
My request for Vegas to have a leg up on other NLE systems is frame accurate deck control. So let me ask about this card and then below I will discuss for those interested why I want frame accurate control for editing if you are interested. Did anyone here see the demo of the Black Magic Declink with Vegas at the show? I know someone who did and we are interested in the Declink SP version. I understand they showed the Declink PRO which is the SDI version with Vegas. I also understand it was told that Vegas would be matched up for use with the Declink SP. This generates interest for two reasons. First so I can bring in Betacam SP directly to an AVI file and Vegas can control that card and the deck through the RS422. This offers a great deal of flexibility for using Vegas in an editing system that uses these decks as I do. Second the “HOPE” and question to Sony is will Vegas be able to utilize the RS422 Sony driver in the Declink SP card to frame accurately control the decks like the UVW1800? Can anyone comment on what they have seen or heard from Sony with Vegas and the Black Magic Declink SP card setup?

Now for why this is valuable. I am not throwing stones a NLE systems like VV or Premiere etc but rather the ability to do work more efficiently. Most here think the fast processing and doing all the extravagant things in these NLE systems is the most important thing but time is the cost driver for a business. Let me explain, while I do like and glad I have the better things I can do now for audio controls and multi-layering for graphics and so on with Vegas, I hate having to redo a whole tape just to make a small change. My main editing system is still the FAST VM/DPR. Been doing tape to tape and tape to NLE insert editing for years. Great hybrid editing and frame accurate. I can take component in as YUV 4:2:2 and compression ration of 3:1 if I want and go to town editing and have most all I need. Limited number of tracks but again most work is not multi-layered. And I can use Boris in it to get more. Most all work is still cut and splice and arrange and putting video to narration matched up to a script and the special glitz items I use VV for is less than 5% of the editing. I love using VV for editing for many things. I just used in on a new project for a client for the whole thing and worked pretty good. But after it is all said and done and the client comes back and says, “hey can we change out this picture for a different one?” or “I need a title graphic inserted here”, then I have to spend a lot of time doing that change. It is not hard, just takes time. In a frame accurate controller world, it is a 5 minute change from start to finish. I can change a video and leave audio alone, change audio and leave video alone or do both and insert that one 3 second change into a 1 hour video master and it is finished in less than 5 minutes. I can not do that with these NLE systems. You make the little change and then have to print back to tape or render etc whatever to finally get a master to make your VHS copies from and so on. That means a lot of time to get a new master instead of just inserting the changed part back into the master and you are done. Much faster and hence makes more money.

So the interest in the Declink SP for Vegas is to cut time. Now some here I understand are using the Promax I think and have had some success in using it to get frame accurate control of the decks like the UVW1800. And I think have done insert editing that way. But the Declink is a lot cheaper and so very interesting. Anyway, hope Sony will chime in here with a comment.


filmy wrote on 5/13/2004, 2:15 PM
If you do a search you will find info about Vegas and Decklink.
GaryAshorn wrote on 5/13/2004, 2:26 PM
Yes read those about the working with Declink. Question is using it with the RS422. If it works with the PRO version I suspect it will work with the SP version. That allows bringing in the YUV directly as analog to the Declink card and it provides the digitizing to an AVI file as I am told. Vegas or Declink can do the batch digitizing. My need is to access the RS422 and timecode of the machine to accurately place the video back into the master. So my hope is Sony will be able to do this from within Vegas. If not, it is a mute question and I have other ways to do it. But I would rather Vegas be my one stop shop for editing. Thanks

Gary Ashorn, PE
filmy wrote on 5/13/2004, 10:29 PM
>>>My need is to access the RS422 and timecode of the machine to accurately place the video back into the master.<<<

Ahhh...well there is the rub. In another thread about EDL SonyEPM said this:
Do your cuts-only edit in Vegas in an NTSC DV (drop frame) timeline. When done, tools>scripting> export edl. [SNIP] Open edl in other editor, re-digitize, finish.

And from a follow up:
AVID can open it, XPRI can open it, a Sony HD linear controller can open it, didn't try it in any version of Premiere.

Now having said that as you read the posts already about Decklink it would seem that you can come in using the cards RS422 port and timecode would be read. *However* Vegas has never been an online tool thusly what you are saying about the need "to accurately place the video back into the master" probably is not going to happen. The abilty to do a PTT may be there but to do any form of online assemble edit - I don't think so.
vitamin_D wrote on 5/13/2004, 10:53 PM
RS422 and all the HD/SD info I can handle -- the more the better. Thanks for the quotes, Filmy.

- jim
GaryAshorn wrote on 5/14/2004, 11:48 AM
I appreciate the information. Guess I will just have to wait for when they offer it up and see. I can't help but think it should be able to work though. If the timecode in Vegas shows up in the RS422 then the deck should be able to use it. The reason Vegas and others don't as a rule is due to the 1394 link. But the Declink uses the RS422 and the driver I understand is the same as used most all these years like my VM or others. So if Declink can control the deck frame accurately then Vegas may also. We will see and if it works that will be a great plus for using Vegas in a higher end setup studio like mine. Everything I use is frame accurate from the DV, DVCAM, DVCPRO, SVHS and Betacam SP. So that is what I hope. Thanks again.

Gary Ashorn