Delivering HD Content Today

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/1/2006, 8:16 AM

I know we’ve discussed this before and I tried to search for it but any conversation over a month old is probably not relevant anymore.

I finally bought an HDTV for my family room and I’m trying to figure out my options to get my personal HD content onto it. I was shocked to find that this is a LOT harder than it looks so I thought I would ask here and get the collective wisdom of the community.

Obviously I can connect my Sony HVR-Z1U into the component inputs of my 1080i HDTV (this was the first thing I did) and get blown away with the clarity of the image. When people say it’s like looking out a window they aren’t kidding. I was totally blown away. But I don’t normally print my final projects back to tape and using my Z1 as an HD deck is probably not the best idea. Since an HD Deck cost as much as an FX1, I can’t see buying a deck when I could have a second camera for the same price.

So what are my options?

1) (Camera) Use my Z1 as a playback device or buy an HD Deck and print everything back to tape.

2) (Blu-ray) Buy a Sony BWU-100A Blu-ray RW $749 (the software doesn’t even make menus but it puts the video on there at least) and then buy a Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc Player for $849. So the cheapest Blu-ray setup costs $1598 + $20 a disc! (Think I'll wait for the PS3 to get a Blu-ray player) ;-)

3) (PC) Connect my PC to my HDTV. This wasn’t optimal. My desktop is no where near my HDTV and my laptop can only do 1360x768 out the external video port so it was smaller than my HDTV and just didn't cut it.

4) (DivX) Use DivX HD to encode and purchase a High Definition DivX Player for around $250 - $379. This thread “Blu-Ray formatted video on 4.7G DVD” suggest they can be had for under $100 but I haven't found one yet. This looks like the only sensible/affordable option.

One of the DivX HD compatible players is the JVC SRDVD-100U which claims to play M2T files from a regular DVD. They claim a Dual layer DVD can hold an hour of M2T. This looks very promising. Does it only play back JVC’s version of M2T? This also plays WMV9 at 1080i so this looks very attractive if it works. Has anyone tried this player?

What are others doing? Please do not start a “format wars” flame on what is better. I just need to know what is “possible” today so I can buy a solution now. Thanks,

~jr

Comments

RBartlett wrote on 10/1/2006, 8:42 AM

5. XBOX 360 - 1920x1080i MPEG2 .TS + WMV HD upto 1080p

Can also be streamed from your PC - according to
http://www.thelongtail.com/the_long_tail/2005/11/first_take_xbox.html

You could probably hire a XBOX 360 and try out a few of these.
The IO Data and JVC player are unlikely to be available for rentals I'd imagine.

There is probably enough life in the 360 to have some resale value when these format problems sort themselves out. Unless the whole world follows this direction and sticks with it of course.

It is hard to know what to best advise though. One might hope that an HD resolution commission would have enough fat in the deal to provide a $200 player in with the transaction.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 10/1/2006, 8:43 AM

Johnny,

there is also the TViX 5000, or in a new version the upcoming TVix 5001 - seems to be interesting in terms of the Sigma chip used here.

http://www.tvix.co.kr/Eng/Boards/PressRelease.aspx?act=RD&itemid=278&pg=

As far as I know, this player seems to be able to play native m2t material too (and H.264 in the upcoming version, I think).

And in addition there is also the upcoming Xoro HSD8500

http://www.xoro.com/Product/DVD-Player/HDMIMPEG4DVD-PlayerXoroHSD8500.html

seems to have an older Sigma chip, but they state that they have optimized the firmware, and that it is possible to play 1080i (not p), but not m2t native.

vicmilt wrote on 10/1/2006, 9:07 AM

Just a thought, but...
how about buying the BluRay disc setup and mounting it into a firewire housing.
Then plug the housing into your main Vegas computer for recording, and move it to the living room and access it with your laptop?
Seems to me that would work until BluRay playback decks appear at more reasonable prices (like just before Xmas).
What do you think?
v

fldave wrote on 10/1/2006, 9:12 AM

JohnnyRoy,

I posted this on the DMN forum, I will copy it here regarding viewing HD content from the PC to your HDTV. I've seen more recent discussions regarding the nVidia setup/latest drivers. Tweaking these settings with the latest video driver version to get HDTV Vegas secondary display with this type of setup. Since this is not my main editing machine, I haven't investigated. So this may not be optimal.

Also, note that nVidia 6600 is the minimum for their new GPU enhanced playback tool, and Nero Showtime 3.0 is the version that implements nVidia's new tech. Showtime 2.0 does not, but 3.0 was a free download since I have Nero 7 - everything.
-----
My nVidia 6600 has DVI, that goes to my LCD. There is also another output next to the DVI connector, looks like S-Video connector, but it's not. My card came with a cable that plugs into that connector, and has component inputs on the other end. If your card didn't come with the cable, look on the manufactures' website, I'm sure they sell them. Then just plug a component cable from that to your TV.

Make sure you have the latest nVidia drivers, they recently updated them with more configurable things for secondary/HDTV displays.

Once hooked up, the card should detect your TV. In the nVidia configuration utility:

Displays: Select multiple displays. I have "clone" picked, shows same on both displays. But then...

On Video/Television options: Modify full-screen options, then select: "Watching Video content, Also show on HDTV"

Then I use Nero Showtime 3.0 (GPU-enhanced) to preview my HD Vegas output.

Edited: oops! I just saw that your PC is not near your HDTV. hmm, have to think about it.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/1/2006, 9:22 AM

> You could probably hire a XBOX 360 and try out a few of these.

I already have an Xbox 360 and it will only talk to a Windows Media Center PC (not XP Pro) and I don’t have one of those. So that’s a great suggestion but doesn’t work for me.

> there is also the TViX 5000, or in a new version the upcoming TVix 5001

Thanks I’ll keep my eye on those but I’m really looking for something to buy “this week” ;-)

> how about buying the BluRay disc setup and mounting it into a firewire housing.

Good idea but my laptop can’t output 1920x1080 HDTV so it doesn’t help. I’m hoping the burners get cheaper by Christmas too.

> Also, note that nVidia 6600 is the minimum for their new GPU enhanced playback tool, and Nero Showtime 3.0 is the version that implements nVidia's new tech.

Even if this was viable, I would rather spend $250 on a set-top player that $250 on a graphics card and have to add a $500 PC as a “dongle” to make it work. Too much trouble.

> What are others doing?

Just to reiterate, I know there are several HD shooters in the forum. What are you using? Has anyone bought the AVeL Linkplayer2 or I-O Data SRDVD-100U? or any DivX HD player that they have actually played 1080i WMV9 or DivX content through? (althought DivX HD is only 720p right now).

Anyone have a WMV9 HD 1080 set-top player that works? (damn it stinks being on the “bleeding” edge.)

~jr

Wolfgang S. wrote on 10/1/2006, 9:41 AM

Then I would go for the TViX 5000.

fldave wrote on 10/1/2006, 10:43 AM

"$250 on a graphics card" FYI, I paid $79 for my nVidia 6600 recently.

teaktart wrote on 10/1/2006, 12:07 PM

Ok, this is a bit backwards but.....

In the meantime, how about the cheapest HDV camera you can buy as a play deck for now, that doubles as a second camera when needed....
Not the best solution but cheaper than using your high end HD camera as a playing deck, and cheaper than the mentioned burner/player options available today.

Teaktart

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/1/2006, 12:49 PM

> "$250 on a graphics card" FYI, I paid $79 for my nVidia 6600 recently.

Perhaps but I paid $79 for my Philips DVD player that plays DivX. I didn’t realize that DivX HD was a separate certification or else I would have looked for it. So the point is, if I can find a $79 DVD Player that handles DivX HD or WMV9 HD I’m all set and there are no PC headaches.

~jr

farss wrote on 10/1/2006, 1:25 PM

According to the local PC mag this:
http://www.airlinktek.com/english/prod_mg35.htm#feature

MediaGate unit might fill your needs, factor in that you don't need to burn disks and over time you're in front.

RBartlett wrote on 10/1/2006, 3:24 PM

Apparently you don't need MCE. This tool provides the necessary:
http://www.dvbportal.de/projects/hdtvpump/

Rename the .m2t files as .mpg and they ought to play on Xbox 360.
This, if you can get it to work - would be the cheapest entry for you. Maybe a good gigabit/100Mbps capable cable run or the newer >100Mbps wireless ethernet standards would give enough headroom to keep this going well?

I don't think the HDTVPump software is in any infringement - ttBoMK.

RBartlett wrote on 10/1/2006, 3:33 PM

Possibly available at a computer store or Frys near:

Pinnacle ShowCenter 200 - slightly long in the tooth - probably based on one of the older Sigma chipsets. Not sure what Avid might have done with this, for better or for worse,...........

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Digital+Media+Adapters/Digital+Media+Player/ShowCenter+200+Documents/Features+_+Specifications

"HD Video; WM9 HD up to 1080i, WM9 HD up to 1080i with DRM, MPEG-2 HD up to 720p, MPEG-4 HD AVI up to 720p
Incompatible video files (such as DV) will be converted to a ShowCenter compatible format as set by the user. "

Let us know if you try out HDTVpump please - It will be ironic that at one time folks based their success of SD DVD-Video on how the DVDR worked in a PS2. Now we could be gauging HD MPEG-2 and WMV9-HD content in how it plays over the wire to an XBOX 360.

bruceo wrote on 10/1/2006, 3:35 PM

I have been promoting and delivering HD for almost 2 years now and instead of fiddling with all the configurations/players etc etc the rout I would insist you take is to get an oem Windows media pack and upgrade one of the capable PCs you have on hand or buy a nice Windows media center PCs for 600-1200. Dont bother rendering to WMVHD just render everything to M2t. Once you start the HD media center content management/TV guide you will wonder why you didn't do it earlier. Over time I have accumulated 2 relatively cheap Sony Vaio Media center desktops. One in the office and 1 in the livingroom. I put a $100 ATI HD tuner in the living room to get free OTA HD, which is incredible. I can simultaneously record an HD stream an SD stream and play back an HD stream AND stream video to the avel linkplayer in the bedroom, laptop wirelessly in the kitchen. I havent watched much TV for years now I can watch an entire football game in 40 minutes etc etc very efficient. I have no DVD discs I now store all my media on cheap 1TB RAID 5 boxes. No need to buy a bluray player when you can just use the player on the PC to play the bluray/HDDVD authored content like you can with DVD content now. Avel is nice if you want to stream content to a regular TV like I do in my bedroom.

cmallam wrote on 10/1/2006, 6:35 PM

What i did, and am very happy with, is buy a Modix HD 3520, and hook it up to my KDS-60A2000 using component (HD) video and optical cable to the amp. i render to m2t files (WMV-HD also works) and get full 1920 x1080 video with stereo audio. The modix is only about $250 and plays just about every video and audio format there is, plus it is compact and works off 12v so you can take it on vacation to listen to music in the car. It can be hooked up to a USB hub so that you can have 5 hard drives online - the ultimate DVD changer, without the mechanical apparatus.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/1/2006, 8:18 PM

Wow, lots of great things to check out. I will play around with the Xbox360 and HDTVPump and see if I can get it to work.

MediaGate looks good as does the Modix HD 3520. As for the Pinnacle ShowCenter, I swore I would never buy a Pinnacle product again because nothing they have ever created works as designed but I appreciate the reference.

Bruceo, what do you think of the Avel LinkPlayer? I liked the idea that you can network it to a remote PC. What HD format do you stream to it? I’m thinking of something like this to hook up to my HDTV so I can burn to DVD or stream from my desktop.

~jr

Grazie wrote on 10/1/2006, 11:01 PM

Amongst all the techincal advise, has the option of a wireless option been discussed? A wireless link from the source to the screen?

farss wrote on 10/2/2006, 12:15 AM

Not exactly wireless directly to the screen but a number of those little boxes including I think the MediaGate have or can easily be fitted with 802.11x wireless capabilities.
Having lost several DVD players to failed lasers and been unable to replace just the drive I'm all for these HTPC or similar devices where you can replace the optical drives, that is assuming you even bother with one.

Bob.

Jay-Hancock wrote on 10/2/2006, 12:36 PM

JR - the LinkPlayer is quite useful for this purpose. I did post a number of comments about it, particularly in this thread.

Main points are:
1) .m2t gives the best quality (better than WMV-HD or DIVX-HD)
2) max bitrate it supports for MPG2 (including .m2t) is 19Mbps for video, 192kbps for audio;
3) connect it to the Internet and get the firmware updates (all of them)
4) really useful to have it networked to your PC, which then becomes a media server

Jay Hancock

bruceo wrote on 10/5/2006, 8:33 PM

Linkplayer is nice and plays several formats as listed in other posts. It also plays the native video recorded from the windows media center TV guide so you can watch your "TIVO" content. I never buy any media. Just go through the guide and pick all of the kids shows and when the kids want to watch shows I just pull up an infite amount of contner to put in the playlist. I am insisting if you go with anything other than a windows media PC network with extenders like Xbox or Avel you are wasting your money. I got rid of all of my stereo equipment and VCR, DVD, CD player etc etc from my ent center and office Now it is just PC and raid box with MASSIVE amounts of free content. I can walk into the house or office and almost instantly browse to show a client HD material that I produced or watch a movie or television show with almost no effort or wasted space.

vicmilt wrote on 10/5/2006, 8:45 PM

Office Depot is currently showing a "Mustek MP100 10" portable Widescreen DVD Player" [about $260] which is feeding a Olevia 32" HD LCD screen [under $800] , and it all looks FABULOUS!

The player is putting out the usual stuff plus DivX, Xvid, AVI and MPEG 4. Does Vegas output any of these in HiDef?

What I was looking at was NOT SD, for sure - incredible imagery for close to or under a grand.
Check it out.
v

fldave wrote on 10/5/2006, 9:59 PM

Vic,

Vegas natively outputs MPEG 4 in the Mainconcept AVC and the Sony AVC formats. Depends on if the player plays AVC, which is the more advanced MPEG 4.

You have to custom adjust the frame size to HD.

I am able to generate 1920x1080 Mainconcept AVC (.mp4 file extension) and play it back using Nero Showtime 3.0.

Edited: how is the player connecting to the HDTV? That is the critical question. HD needs Component or HDMI, and in some instances, DVI.