Give a go.

G

Exactly what camera recorded the original files?

I think it's a Sony HVR B5, but I'm not sure.

Trying Vegas 11. Reinstalled, won't let me register. Separate post going for that.

Sorry, no such thing as a Sony HVR 5B, but there is a HVR-Z5 actually Z5U.

I'll have to get the model from the shooter.

OK SO HERE WE ARE!
contacted Sony and got them to let me register Vegas 11. literally 90 seconds later...the video is running what seems to be PERFECTLY in 11!!!!

I'm the kind of guy who NEEDS to know WHY and have things work the way they should...but in this case.. 2 days no sleep, angry client, and way behind schedule.. I'll take it.

This is a bit premature... I haven't really WORKED with the video.. just able to play it back in Vegas. I expect the rest should be OK... but I'll report back if any issues.

LESSONS LEARNED:
This was a Sony cam (sorry I don't know the exact model...but it's not consumer grade that's for sure) going to SONY software. It should have been seemless. Next time, I'll just my own card and watch the 'chain of evidence'. This file went through a few generations and I think that may have contributed at least to the issue.

THANK YOU EVERYONE !!!!!

If it runs in VP11 it must be ok in VP12 and 13 too. Have you tried so see if your new VP11 installation cured the issue with higher versions?

Hmmm good point.
I just tried it with Vegas 12. It still stalls and crashes immediately. And just to be clear.. I'm working with the original files (well.. the ones he gave me..not the raw ones)...not the VLC conversions.

As far as legacy Vegas is concerned, MP42 is more compatible than ISOM flag.
Vegas versions earlier than 10 (I think) will only work if they are branded mp42.

One can change the major_brand metadata in MP4BOX if one wishes.

fosko

Here is what MediInfo reports on my Sony Z5U files:

General
ID : 255 (0xFF)
Complete name : F:\Customer\Summer Show 2013\Show\20130601_15061201_0006.M2T
Format : MPEG-TS
Commercial name : HDV 1080i
File size : 7.55 GiB
Duration : 41mn 20s
Start time : UTC 2013-06-01 14:44:30
End time : UTC 2013-06-01 15:25:51
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 26.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 33.0 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2013-06-01 14:44:30

Video
ID : 2064 (0x810)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Video
Commercial name : HDV 1080i
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High 1440
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 41mn 20s
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.525
Stream size : 7.06 GiB (94%)
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2068 (0x814)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 41mn 20s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -209ms
Stream size : 114 MiB (1%)

Menu
ID : 129 (0x81)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
List : 2064 (0x810) (MPEG Video) / 2068 (0x814) (MPEG Audio) / 2069 (0x815) () / 2065 (0x811) ()

This comes from the MRC1K CF-Card recorder on the Z5U.

Hmmm, thank you. I'm pretty tech savvy..but maybe I'm more of a super-user. This is way over my head. I'm not sure what I'm looking for in the media info, or how to change major_brand metadata in MP4BOX.

Just my luck...as I LITERALLY went to hit the first keystroke to start on the project...the power went out (major Tstorms here last night). I took the opportunity to take a nap since I haven't really slept in 3 days... so i'm about to start on the project now. If this works I don't mind doing it in Vegas 11...can't think of anything I'd lose..just to get through this. This info may be better for future endeavors however.

I'm pretty sure that the files your client gave you were not the original files directly from the camera, he transcoded them in some way before you got them. They could have been HDV MPEG2 files which he converted to a non-standard flavor of MP4 (and also messed up the field order in the process.)

I think so also John. There were some issues getting them to me. first they were too large to fit on a DVD so I brought him my external Hard drive...but it wasn't formatted correctly, and then he converted to an MP4 and a bunch of things. It's hard to retrace all of the steps, but in the future I'm just going to have him give me the original files directly before any tampering.

In the mean time.. at least I can start getting this out of the way. First step...Plaural Eyes to sync..

Thanks again for all of the help.

fosko : [i]...and then he converted to an MP4 and a bunch of things.[/I]

This would imply that that's where, possibly, the MP42 format was introduced and the subsequent issues you'd have got.

G

My thoughts also.
My idea for recovery came when you posted about other instances of Vegas crashing. I have been thinking all along I'd like to try it on another NLE but didn't have one. That made me think of taking it back to Vegas 11 and Bingo!!!

I haven't rendered anything yet but I have all of the files in the timeline and it's functioning properly.

I noticed one thing....Files from Camera 1 are UPPER FIELD FIRST and from Camera 2 are LOWER FIELD FIRST. Is that going to create a problem ?

For me, mixing field orders, on the TL has produce some weird backwards<>forwards results. But I'm guessing you're aware of this by now? <wink>

G

Think I should change them so they are the same ?
All Upper ?

After many years of acquiring my DIGITAL scars from the experience of this nonsense, I experiment and grit my teeth hoping for the best, and at least I'm not dissappointed when the results aren't Stellar and come here and ask. I've not recently inter-cut, dissolved, FAST OR SloMo'ed UFF and LFF. I'm glad I'm not in your position.

OK, I attempt to make sure ALL my TL Media complies with Project. This means from filming all the way through to publish. If I wander from this I plan for it. I've used YADIF just to get some sanity into the process and allow me to get on with the job in hand.

G

Wow, this is the project that keeps on giving... I hope you have some hair left by the time you're finished.

There is a field in the header of MPEG2 and MP4 files that states whether a file is progressive or upper or lower field first. Mediainfo and Vegas don't actually test the clip they just read this field but the field could set incorrectly. Given all the problems you've had with these clips, it wouldn't surprise me if the field dominance field got messed up.

However, there is a way to test the actual field dominance:

Start a new temporary project and set the Project Properties to 59.94 fps (or 50 PAL) and set it to progressive, then make sure the Preview Window is set to "Best (Auto)"

Put one of your clips on the timeline, Vegas will read the field order from the clip's header and then place each field as a separate frame.

Zoom all the way in on the timeline and step through the frames one at a time, if the field order is set correctly in the clip's properties then each frame will appear to be sequential in time. If the clip's field order is set incorrectly, one frame will appear to advance in time and the next frame will appear to go backwards in time. It will alternate between going forward and backward. Whichever field order shows the clip progressing correctly in time is the actual field order of the clip.

Once you have determined the actual field order, just make sure that they are set to their real field order when you place them in your project and Vegas will handle it from there.

At this point, drop the clips into your real project and edit away, if the project is HD, then the project should be set for upper field first.

There is one more "gotcha" that I should mention, whichever clip is the opposite of the project's field order, in this case, the lower field first clip, it will be ever-so-slightly soft as Vegas will have to shift it by one line to change the field order to match the project. This issue will probably be unnoticeable and of no practical consequence. If you really wanted to correctly change the field dominance of the incorrect clip, you can do that by generating an intermediate uncompressed .AVI file and use third-party programs to fix it. This would probably be WAY too much trouble.

Just set them correctly and go. By the way, your client has made your life much more difficult than necessary.

The easy way to correct field order is to render it out as progressive. Like John suggested, put the clip(s) in Vegas, set the project to double NTSC or PAL, make sure de-interlace is set to interpolate, check and make sure the field order is correctly in the clip properties, leave "smart resample" on and render it out as 60p or 50p to an intermediate format. Since you got HDV material, I would go with a simple 1280x720p XDCAM EX format if your final delivery is DVD or Internet. Go with a better one if you deliver BluRay.