digital8 concern

joejon wrote on 11/19/2005, 2:04 PM
I currently have a Digital8 camera having switched to that about 6 years ago because I had a Hi8 camera before that and I could playback either format. Now with Sony fasing out D8 I'm beginning to panic. I have captured bits and pieces of my video so I could edit in Vegas for various projects, but I have so much more that I only have on the original 8mm tapes. When my camera breaks I'll have about 200 or so 8mm tapes I won't be able to playback. I could capture each tape and burn the files to dvds, but to keep the original quality and make duplicate copies, I would have to use 3 dvds for each 1 hour 8mm tape (.avi files). That seems very time consuming having to try and split up the tape to span over 3 dvds. Then I was thinking of getting a minidv camera to start using for my recordings and also transfering all my 8mm to minidv. Is minidv compressed or when it's captured will it be in .avi as my Digital8 is? I don't know much about minidv. Now I'm reading on the forum that minidv is on its way out too and HD is the way of the future. But HD cameras are sooooo expensive. I did check out some Sony minidv cams, but they don't have a mic input like my D8 does and I like to use an external mic. It seems like cameras desgined now days have less features for more money. What to do? I'm at a loss. Should I burn to dvds, is minidv going to be around long enough until high capacity dvd burners come out that can burn a dvd that can hold an entire tape, or do I take out a loan to buy the future of HD? The constantly changing world of technology is very expensive for consumers.
Any helpful advice is appreciated in this dilema. Thanks

Comments

JJKizak wrote on 11/19/2005, 3:26 PM
I wouldn't panic too much, 8mm will still be here and so will Mini-DV. I use the Sony GV-D 200 VCR to capture all 8mm stuff.

JJK
Chienworks wrote on 11/19/2005, 3:27 PM
MiniDV uses exactly the same data format as Digital8. Digital transfers between the camcorders will be completely lossless. Of course, there's always going to be a bit dropped now and then, but probably not enough to worry about.

Search ebay for Digital8 camcorders. Some folks are selling theirs for practically nothing. Pick up a few extra if you're that worried about them dying.

Somewhat more expensive that DVDs are large hard drives. For some of the more critical stuff you might consider getting a few 400GB drives and transferring to those. You could mount them in the computer long enough to do the transfer, then remove them and repackage them in their original antistatic bag & packaging until you're ready to do some editing. The speed and convenience may more than make up for the higher price.

Be selective. 200 tapes? At first you might think they are all cherished memories. But as the years go by, how many of them will you really ever look at again? Do the must-haves first. Do the rest on an as-needed basis and you may find that many of them are never needed. Where i work we're in the process of digitizing all of our CAD drawings from the past 60 years. We started out doing anything produced in the last three years (about 2,000 of them). After that we only transfer a drawing when it is requested. In the last 5 months there have been requests for maybe 5 of the 9,000 drawings that are more than three years old.
riredale wrote on 11/19/2005, 5:22 PM
I think your 8mm tapes will last a very long time. Last year someone came to me with a dusty Umatic tape cartridge (about the size of a Webster's Collegiate Dictionary) and requested that we pull the video off it. We finally found a local TV station with a Umatic vcr, and to my surprise the video looked very clean.

So keep your tapes in a cool, dry place, and you'll one day be able to transfer the important parts to some sort of 100GB holographic memory that costs $2 at the local drugstore.
joejon wrote on 11/19/2005, 6:52 PM
For those who responded so far, thanks for your input and opinions. I have another question, which probably is stupid, but oh well. I know that HDV has more lines of resolution than D8 or Minidv, but if it's compressed (MPeg2), and D8 and Minidv are not compressed, how does that iron out in better resolution for HDV over the other two? Also, does Vegas handle the MPeg2 HDV video the same way it does the .AVI Digital8 video as far as capturing clips and so forth?
PeterWright wrote on 11/19/2005, 8:00 PM
Digital 8 and Mini DV are compressed at about 5:1 in camera.

Although HDV is theoretically more compressed, believe me the quality is a considerable improvement.

Vegas can capture m2t ok, but editing smoothly with this format is very difficult, so two options are available:

1. Convert to Cineform intermediate avi files. These are at HD resolution and are very high quality, but use about 3 times as much space.

2. Use Proxy files - this means rendering to DV widescreen avis, which take up about the same space as HDV. These files can then be used to edit smoothly then be replaced by the original HDV for output. This can be done manually within Vegas or much better is to use the Gearshift plug-in which automates the whole process.
Spot|DSE wrote on 11/19/2005, 8:02 PM
D8 and DV are both compressed. Not as much as HDV, but it's not so much the amount of compression, but rather how it's decompressed/decoded.

Yes, Vegas handles the HDV the same way as it handles DV and/or the converted D8 that you're capturing. It uses a different capture tool that comes with Vegas 6, but it will capture identically.
Vegas 5 doesn't come with the capture tool, but you can still use HDV in Vegas 5 as well. This article might help you a little, even if it's outdated now.
riredale wrote on 11/19/2005, 8:02 PM
All three use compression; HDV uses an advanced format called MPEG2 (similar to what is used on DVDs), while miniDV and D8 use the "DV" compression format. The HDV datastream represents roughly a 25:1 compression ratio when compared to "raw" video, and the DV compression scheme does about a 5:1 compression.

Video compression is an amazing technology, almost bordering on alchemy--how do you preserve the "essence" of an image while taking away 96% of the data?

HDV came after DV, and is a much more sophisticated compression method; hence the increase in compression without an increase in artifacts. Even MPEG2 doesn't represent the state-of-the-art any more--new formats, such as one called "H264" can do a compression roughly two to three times better than MPEG2!
farss wrote on 11/19/2005, 8:06 PM
Almost ALL video is compressed in some way or the other. D8 and DV25 all use a spatial compression system similar to .jpg. HDV adds mpeg-2's temporal compression to crunch the amount of data needed for the higher resolution down further. Compression isn't a bad thing, good compression means more resolution can be stored at lower cost.

Anways I'm in much the same boat, although nowhere near as much D8 stuff as you have. My plan is to copy all of this to DVCAM, I'm lucky in that I have a DSR-11. The advantage for me is that the DVCAM tapes will hold 3 hours of material which is kind of handy as all my D8 tapes are 90 minutes.

If you're serious about archiving to AVI files on DVDs I'd highly recommend archival grade DVDs, down here they can be bought from www.prodisc.com.au however as far as I know he's the only guy on the planet who has been able to get these things made, and they are expensive.

There's no real advantage to copying to any HDV format over DV on miniDV tapes, bear in mind that HDV gear will record and playback DV25, if you decide to invest in HDV kit that's what I'd be doing. If you buy a Z1 I think it can record in DVCAM mode, that means only 40 minutes per tape but a somewhat more robust format, same data, just wider track and higher write speed.

But as said I'd seriously consider culling some of that footage!

Bob.
teaktart wrote on 11/21/2005, 8:28 PM
My first camera was a Sony Digital 8 which is what I used on a rare trip to Cuba.... since then I wanted to make another copy of that footage with a newer miniDv camera just in case that first camera died and I'd be stuck without the ability to edit that material in the future.
I bought the cable necessary to connect the two cameras and recorded straight across and now have two sets of tapes. It was real easy and now I feel secure that even if that original D8 camera dies I can get to that footage for editing. Having just "suffered" losing my C: drive I'm a new believer in making copies of everything.... I like the suggestion of getting it all onto another drive for backup, but I also want actual tape(s) in my hand as backup too..... If its impossible to replace your material, being a bit paranoid and redundant might be worth it ....
Teaktart