That's pretty disappointing. So If I wanted to use a Waves
Compressor as an track insert I'd have to set up a
dedicated bus for that track, correct?

Will other plug-in vendors be offered an api/sdk for track
fx?

thanks
-david


Matt Logan wrote:
>>The Track FX require a special plug-in interface that is
>>optimized for speed. Only the Track EQ and Track
>>Compressor currently support this interface.
>>
>>If you want to use other DirectX plug-ins in your project
>>you will have to create an assignable FX chain. This can
>>be done a number of ways:
>>
>>-1- Go to the “Insert” menu and select “Assignable FX”.
>>This will bring up the Plug-in Chooser which will allow
you
>>to select from a list of all available plug-ins. General
>>DirectX plug-ins are located in the Audio/FX folder.
>>
>>-2- From the “View” menu select “Mixer” (Alt+3) to open
the
>>Mixer window. Click on the “Insert Assignable FX” button
>>(which looks like a Track FX button with a sparkle on the
>>upper right corner). This will bring up the plug-in
>>chooser just like the previous method did.
>>
>>-3- Open the Mixer window. Open the Plug-ins window
>>(“View” – “Plug-ins” (Alt+5)). Descend in the file
system
>>to Plug-Ins/Audio/FX directory. Drag a plug-in from the
>>list onto an empty region on the mixer window. This will
>>create a new assignable FX send with the plug-ins you
>>dragged.
>>
>>To get your track audio to run through the new assignable
>>FX you have to set the send level. Make sure the track
>>header area is large enough to show the “Pan” fader.
Click
>>on the text next to the fader. This will bring up a
popup
>>menu. Select “FX1” The fader now controls the send level
>>to “FX 1”. Adjust this fader to your desired send level.
>>
>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>>How do you get DirectX plugins in Track FX, I drag and
>>drop
>>>>and nothing happens?
>>>>
>>>>-david

That's completely ridiculous. You guys have to figure out
how to insert Direct X plug-ins on individual tracks.
Other than that, this program completely rocks! It's far
above all of the other proprietary and host-based solutions
out there.

Keep up the great work!

Matt Logan wrote:
>>The Track FX require a special plug-in interface that is
>>optimized for speed. Only the Track EQ and Track
>>Compressor currently support this interface.
>>
>>If you want to use other DirectX plug-ins in your project
>>you will have to create an assignable FX chain. This can
>>be done a number of ways:
>>
>>-1- Go to the “Insert” menu and select “Assignable FX”.
>>This will bring up the Plug-in Chooser which will allow
you
>>to select from a list of all available plug-ins. General
>>DirectX plug-ins are located in the Audio/FX folder.
>>
>>-2- From the “View” menu select “Mixer” (Alt+3) to open
the
>>Mixer window. Click on the “Insert Assignable FX” button
>>(which looks like a Track FX button with a sparkle on the
>>upper right corner). This will bring up the plug-in
>>chooser just like the previous method did.
>>
>>-3- Open the Mixer window. Open the Plug-ins window
>>(“View” – “Plug-ins” (Alt+5)). Descend in the file
system
>>to Plug-Ins/Audio/FX directory. Drag a plug-in from the
>>list onto an empty region on the mixer window. This will
>>create a new assignable FX send with the plug-ins you
>>dragged.
>>
>>To get your track audio to run through the new assignable
>>FX you have to set the send level. Make sure the track
>>header area is large enough to show the “Pan” fader.
Click
>>on the text next to the fader. This will bring up a
popup
>>menu. Select “FX1” The fader now controls the send level
>>to “FX 1”. Adjust this fader to your desired send level.
>>
>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>>How do you get DirectX plugins in Track FX, I drag and
>>drop
>>>>and nothing happens?
>>>>
>>>>-david

Right, as of the current version you would have to set
up an Assignable FX Send for each track you wanted to use
the Waves compressor on. It sucks, I know. The good news
is that it is very likely that Waves (and other DirectX
developers) will want to add this interface to their plug-
ins.

I do believe we intend to publish the spec for the new
interface, which is fairly simple to add to an existing
plug-in. The interface guarantees that the effect runs “in
place” on the audio data buffer that is passed in (which
will keep the audio data buffer cached in the CPU for
faster processing). In the long run this means more FX can
run on the same CPU without gapping.

David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>That's pretty disappointing. So If I wanted to use a
Waves
>>Compressor as an track insert I'd have to set up a
>>dedicated bus for that track, correct?
>>
>>Will other plug-in vendors be offered an api/sdk for
track
>>fx?
>>
>>thanks
>>-david
>>
>>

1) Is this a true COM interface that can co-exist with
the "standard" DirectX interface (can plugin vendors use a
single *.exe, or do they have to ship separate binaries)

2) Will other DirectX host applications have access to this
API?

This is a scary trend for those of us with substantial
DirectX Plugin investments.

3) What about time stretch support, please don't say we'll
have to use acid for that.

4) What about the option to set a color for the clips
themselves instead of the waveforms therein? Also the
bolder clip outlines in acid make it easier to distinguish
clips. Right now alot of tracks in Vegas make the track
view look somewhat frantic.


Thanks
-david


Matt Logan wrote:
>> Right, as of the current version you would have to
set
>>up an Assignable FX Send for each track you wanted to use
>>the Waves compressor on. It sucks, I know. The good
news
>>is that it is very likely that Waves (and other DirectX
>>developers) will want to add this interface to their plug-
>>ins.
>>
>> I do believe we intend to publish the spec for the
new
>>interface, which is fairly simple to add to an existing
>>plug-in. The interface guarantees that the effect
runs “in
>>place” on the audio data buffer that is passed in (which
>>will keep the audio data buffer cached in the CPU for
>>faster processing). In the long run this means more FX
can
>>run on the same CPU without gapping.
>>
>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>>That's pretty disappointing. So If I wanted to use a
>>Waves
>>>>Compressor as an track insert I'd have to set up a
>>>>dedicated bus for that track, correct?
>>>>
>>>>Will other plug-in vendors be offered an api/sdk for
>>track
>>>>fx?
>>>>
>>>>thanks
>>>>-david
>>>>
>>>>
>>

Yes, the Track FX interface is a true COM interface, and in
fact does exist side by side with the "standard" DirectX
interface on both the Track EQ and Track Compressor plug-
ins shipped with Vegas. So yes, a single binary file can
support both interfaces, and ideally share a substantial
portion of the guts of the plug-in.

Since a published interface pretty much defines how a plug-
in and a host app interact, I can't think of any technical
reason why other DirectX host app developers would be
inhibited from utilizing plug-ins with the new interface.

As to your other questions, I think I'll let someone more
familiar with the topic address them...

David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>1) Is this a true COM interface that can co-exist with
>>the "standard" DirectX interface (can plugin vendors use
a
>>single *.exe, or do they have to ship separate binaries)
>>
>>2) Will other DirectX host applications have access to
this
>>API?
>>
>>This is a scary trend for those of us with substantial
>>DirectX Plugin investments.
>>

Matt Logan wrote:
>>The Track FX require a special plug-in interface that is
>>optimized for speed. Only the Track EQ and Track
>>Compressor currently support this interface.
>>
>>If you want to use other DirectX plug-ins in your project
>>you will have to create an assignable FX chain. This can
>>be done a number of ways:
>>
>>-1- Go to the “Insert” menu and select “Assignable FX”.
>>This will bring up the Plug-in Chooser which will allow
you
>>to select from a list of all available plug-ins. General
>>DirectX plug-ins are located in the Audio/FX folder.
>>
>>-2- From the “View” menu select “Mixer” (Alt+3) to open
the
>>Mixer window. Click on the “Insert Assignable FX” button
>>(which looks like a Track FX button with a sparkle on the
>>upper right corner). This will bring up the plug-in
>>chooser just like the previous method did.
>>
>>-3- Open the Mixer window. Open the Plug-ins window
>>(“View” – “Plug-ins” (Alt+5)). Descend in the file
system
>>to Plug-Ins/Audio/FX directory. Drag a plug-in from the
>>list onto an empty region on the mixer window. This will
>>create a new assignable FX send with the plug-ins you
>>dragged.
>>
>>To get your track audio to run through the new assignable
>>FX you have to set the send level. Make sure the track
>>header area is large enough to show the “Pan” fader.
Click
>>on the text next to the fader. This will bring up a
popup
>>menu. Select “FX1” The fader now controls the send level
>>to “FX 1”. Adjust this fader to your desired send level.
>>
>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>>How do you get DirectX plugins in Track FX, I drag and
>>drop
>>>>and nothing happens?
>>>>
>>>>-david

Matt Logan wrote:
>>The Track FX require a special plug-in interface that is
>>optimized for speed. Only the Track EQ and Track
>>Compressor currently support this interface.
>>
>>If you want to use other DirectX plug-ins in your project
>>you will have to create an assignable FX chain. This can
>>be done a number of ways:
>>
>>-1- Go to the “Insert” menu and select “Assignable FX”.
>>This will bring up the Plug-in Chooser which will allow
you
>>to select from a list of all available plug-ins. General
>>DirectX plug-ins are located in the Audio/FX folder.
>>
>>-2- From the “View” menu select “Mixer” (Alt+3) to open
the
>>Mixer window. Click on the “Insert Assignable FX” button
>>(which looks like a Track FX button with a sparkle on the
>>upper right corner). This will bring up the plug-in
>>chooser just like the previous method did.
>>
>>-3- Open the Mixer window. Open the Plug-ins window
>>(“View” – “Plug-ins” (Alt+5)). Descend in the file
system
>>to Plug-Ins/Audio/FX directory. Drag a plug-in from the
>>list onto an empty region on the mixer window. This will
>>create a new assignable FX send with the plug-ins you
>>dragged.
>>
>>To get your track audio to run through the new assignable
>>FX you have to set the send level. Make sure the track
>>header area is large enough to show the “Pan” fader.
Click
>>on the text next to the fader. This will bring up a
popup
>>menu. Select “FX1” The fader now controls the send level
>>to “FX 1”. Adjust this fader to your desired send level.
>>
>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>>How do you get DirectX plugins in Track FX, I drag and
>>drop
>>>>and nothing happens?
>>>>
>>>>-david

Why Sonic Foundry didn't provide the option to insert a
DirectX plug-in on the Track, even if it degrades the
performance, it will be very usefull when you want to use a
plug-in like L1 Ultramaximizer, the alternative you provide
creating a "send fx" is only usefull to plug-in like
reverbs, delays and etc.

Matt Logan wrote:
>>The Track FX require a special plug-in interface that is
>>optimized for speed. Only the Track EQ and Track
>>Compressor currently support this interface.
>>
>>If you want to use other DirectX plug-ins in your project
>>you will have to create an assignable FX chain. This can
>>be done a number of ways:
>>
>>-1- Go to the “Insert” menu and select “Assignable FX”.
>>This will bring up the Plug-in Chooser which will allow
you
>>to select from a list of all available plug-ins. General
>>DirectX plug-ins are located in the Audio/FX folder.
>>
>>-2- From the “View” menu select “Mixer” (Alt+3) to open
the
>>Mixer window. Click on the “Insert Assignable FX” button
>>(which looks like a Track FX button with a sparkle on the
>>upper right corner). This will bring up the plug-in
>>chooser just like the previous method did.
>>
>>-3- Open the Mixer window. Open the Plug-ins window
>>(“View” – “Plug-ins” (Alt+5)). Descend in the file
system
>>to Plug-Ins/Audio/FX directory. Drag a plug-in from the
>>list onto an empty region on the mixer window. This will
>>create a new assignable FX send with the plug-ins you
>>dragged.
>>
>>To get your track audio to run through the new assignable
>>FX you have to set the send level. Make sure the track
>>header area is large enough to show the “Pan” fader.
Click
>>on the text next to the fader. This will bring up a
popup
>>menu. Select “FX1” The fader now controls the send level
>>to “FX 1”. Adjust this fader to your desired send level.
>>
>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>>How do you get DirectX plugins in Track FX, I drag and
>>drop
>>>>and nothing happens?
>>>>
>>>>-david

David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>2) Will other DirectX host applications have access to this
>API?
>
>This is a scary trend for those of us with substantial
>DirectX Plugin investments.

I think there are a bunch of flaws with the DirectMedia
filter system which the audio software community uses for
audio plug-ins. I could be wrong, as the description is
pretty convoluted, but if I understand it correctly, it seems
to have a lot of limitations. So I'm not surprised if people
want to work around those limitations. (Although I hope
the claimed reason for the new interface in Vegas is an
oversimplification, since the existing interface supports
what is claimed is desired, it just doesn't guarantee it;
so the performance gains should already be there if you
stick to in-place filters already.)

In terms of you getting burned by having bought DirectX
effects, hopefully if there are industry-accepted revisions to
the "standard" plug-in approach, people will offer free (or cheap)
upgrades. If there aren't, then odds are SF will be obliged to
make it easier to use normal DX plug-ins.

But rather than every company and his brother creating
their own modified plug-in approach, we'd all (consumers
and plug-in developers) probably be better served by a bunch
of technical folks from (otherwise competing) companies getting
together and creating a standard, instead of just letting Microsoft
define something and accepting that as good enough. (I actually
have no idea what happened in the development process; maybe
Microsoft did seek out industry feedback on it.)

Some obvious limitations that I see from reading the DX spec
(although I could be wrong about this):

Inability to have dynamically-varying parameters controlled
by the host app (e.g. you can draw volume and pan
envelopes on your track, but you can't draw plug-in effect
parameters on them). An effect could try to integrate time
varying behaviors directly into it, but it'll never be integrated
with a track view.

Difficulty hot-swapping out effects in real-time: e.g. you want
a different effect on the verse than on the chorus. Have to
split them into two tracks (at least under the hood).

Inability to have program-controlled effects instead of user-controlled
effects. There's no standard way to define "this is a pitch-shift
effect", so that you could drop differing pitch-shift effects into
Acid.

The first two can be faked around in limited ways, but only with
UI difficulty and/or performance penalties (potentially severe).

This is not meant to take sonic foundry to task, just some thoughts
I've been having for the last year when I wrote some plugins for
my own use.

(If any technically inclined folk want to email me offline about this,
feel free.)

Sean

Excellent points Sean

Sean Barrett wrote:
>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>2) Will other DirectX host applications have access to this
>>>API?
>>>
>>>This is a scary trend for those of us with substantial
>>>DirectX Plugin investments.
>>
>>I think there are a bunch of flaws with the DirectMedia
>>filter system which the audio software community uses for
>>audio plug-ins. I could be wrong, as the description is
>>pretty convoluted, but if I understand it correctly, it seems
>>to have a lot of limitations. So I'm not surprised if people
>>want to work around those limitations. (Although I hope
>>the claimed reason for the new interface in Vegas is an
>>oversimplification, since the existing interface supports
>>what is claimed is desired, it just doesn't guarantee it;
>>so the performance gains should already be there if you
>>stick to in-place filters already.)
>>
>>In terms of you getting burned by having bought DirectX
>>effects, hopefully if there are industry-accepted revisions to
>>the "standard" plug-in approach, people will offer free (or cheap)
>>upgrades. If there aren't, then odds are SF will be obliged to
>>make it easier to use normal DX plug-ins.
>>
>>But rather than every company and his brother creating
>>their own modified plug-in approach, we'd all (consumers
>>and plug-in developers) probably be better served by a bunch
>>of technical folks from (otherwise competing) companies getting
>>together and creating a standard, instead of just letting Microsoft
>>define something and accepting that as good enough. (I actually
>>have no idea what happened in the development process; maybe
>>Microsoft did seek out industry feedback on it.)
>>
>>Some obvious limitations that I see from reading the DX spec
>>(although I could be wrong about this):
>>
>> Inability to have dynamically-varying parameters controlled
>> by the host app (e.g. you can draw volume and pan
>> envelopes on your track, but you can't draw plug-in effect
>> parameters on them). An effect could try to integrate time
>> varying behaviors directly into it, but it'll never be integrated
>> with a track view.
>>
>> Difficulty hot-swapping out effects in real-time: e.g. you want
>> a different effect on the verse than on the chorus. Have to
>> split them into two tracks (at least under the hood).
>>
>> Inability to have program-controlled effects instead of user-controlled
>> effects. There's no standard way to define "this is a pitch-shift
>> effect", so that you could drop differing pitch-shift effects into
>> Acid.
>>
>>The first two can be faked around in limited ways, but only with
>>UI difficulty and/or performance penalties (potentially severe).
>>
>>This is not meant to take sonic foundry to task, just some thoughts
>>I've been having for the last year when I wrote some plugins for
>>my own use.
>>
>>(If any technically inclined folk want to email me offline about this,
>>feel free.)
>>
>>Sean

David,

I agree with all the guys, this program is a real step in the right
direction for a PC based machine.

I purchased the Antares Auto-Tune Directx driver anticipating a great
response only to find out that an insert into the main buss corrects
everything in that "main" buss. I spoke to tech support and was told
to insert the plug-in in an assignable buss, set the individual track
to pre-fader (I didn't know you could do that) and lower the track
volume to 0. This make the aux send your track volume fader. It works
but it is a real pain to maintain. We few owners of this software
need to push for this individual insert. Other than that, I'm cool
with the features.

Kimble

David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>How do you get DirectX plugins in Track FX, I drag and drop
>>and nothing happens?
>>
>>-david

I don't think it's that ridiculous...users want LOTS of tracks, and I
think SF just wanted to make the program as efficient as possible...I
mean, I make it work great on an AMD k2 400 for gawd's sake! Let the
plug in makers (Waves etc) build products that are efficient enough
to meet this special criteria so the program continues to work well.
By the way Ty, I took your advice..went with the Motu 2408. Can't
wait to get my PIII rocking!
By the way Ty, do you fiddle with virtual memory settings in Windows
or do you leave them alone?

Ty Christensen wrote:
>>That's completely ridiculous. You guys have to figure out
>>how to insert Direct X plug-ins on individual tracks.
>>Other than that, this program completely rocks! It's far
>>above all of the other proprietary and host-based solutions
>>out there.
>>
>>Keep up the great work!
>>
>>Matt Logan wrote:
>>>>The Track FX require a special plug-in interface that is
>>>>optimized for speed. Only the Track EQ and Track
>>>>Compressor currently support this interface.
>>>>
>>>>If you want to use other DirectX plug-ins in your project
>>>>you will have to create an assignable FX chain. This can
>>>>be done a number of ways:
>>>>
>>>>-1- Go to the “Insert” menu and select “Assignable FX”.
>>>>This will bring up the Plug-in Chooser which will allow
>>you
>>>>to select from a list of all available plug-ins. General
>>>>DirectX plug-ins are located in the Audio/FX folder.
>>>>
>>>>-2- From the “View” menu select “Mixer” (Alt+3) to open
>>the
>>>>Mixer window. Click on the “Insert Assignable FX” button
>>>>(which looks like a Track FX button with a sparkle on the
>>>>upper right corner). This will bring up the plug-in
>>>>chooser just like the previous method did.
>>>>
>>>>-3- Open the Mixer window. Open the Plug-ins window
>>>>(“View” – “Plug-ins” (Alt+5)). Descend in the file
>>system
>>>>to Plug-Ins/Audio/FX directory. Drag a plug-in from the
>>>>list onto an empty region on the mixer window. This will
>>>>create a new assignable FX send with the plug-ins you
>>>>dragged.
>>>>
>>>>To get your track audio to run through the new assignable
>>>>FX you have to set the send level. Make sure the track
>>>>header area is large enough to show the “Pan” fader.
>>Click
>>>>on the text next to the fader. This will bring up a
>>popup
>>>>menu. Select “FX1” The fader now controls the send level
>>>>to “FX 1”. Adjust this fader to your desired send level.
>>>>
>>>>David Abraham Fenton wrote:
>>>>>>How do you get DirectX plugins in Track FX, I drag and
>>>>drop
>>>>>>and nothing happens?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-david
>>