DNxHD 30p 145 8-bit will not load

Zelkien69 wrote on 5/24/2013, 9:13 AM
My company specializes primarily in weddings and we are looking to squeeze one more season out of our mix of 60D and 5D cameras. In order to get more latitude during editing I used MPEG Streamclip to convert all of our Canon *.MOV files to Avid DNxHD 145 8-bit files (tried 220 and 10-bit as well, but the benefit was negligible versus time & file to added benefit).
When trying to add what was initially a 32GB card with 80+ clips converted to 145 8-bit to the timeline (approximately 90GB), Vegas simply freezes. I thought it might be the computer hanging, but it's a i7-3930k with 32GB of Ram and separate hard drives (O.S., render, Main, Media) with the drive it's reading from being a Raid 0 with 7200 RPM Seagate hard drives. It quickly stalls and I even left it up overnight to see if it was just a weird delay. It simply wouldn't load.
So then I tried it on a another computer with an i7-950 and 16GB of Ram with the same effect. It just hangs.
After some other testing I could transfer a fully converted card (around 90GB) to the timeline with no issue if it had less than 12 or so files. It appears to be an issue with file number, not size.
Anything that I can adjust to help these files load? Our current work around is cutting the folders down to sub 50 file counts and loading them. No problems with that so far, I'd just rather load and go.


musicvid10 wrote on 5/24/2013, 11:34 AM
I had troubles too, with DNxHD that had been encoded in Streamclip. I've never tried such large numbers of files as you describe.

You could load your Canon MOV files in Vegas, and do the conversion to DNxHD there.

Or, you could convert to Cineform AVI with the free GoPro Studio encoder. I've been doing more of the latter lately because it is so easy.
Zelkien69 wrote on 5/24/2013, 11:45 AM
I've actually went to DNxHD because of the troubles I've had with Cineform from Vegas 8 on. I'm hoping that as both a working and archive format that DNxHD is the best option going forward.
We have multiple systems and some just don't work properly with rendering or reading Cinemform.
I've rendered out final cuts via scripting and batch rendering to DNxHD with no problems, but with MPEG Streamclip I liked being able to have 8-12 cards being converted at once with the 4 stream option and having the simplicity of all media converted, so if I need to make a change I don't need to adjust the clip. (Clients request changes on a whim).
I definitely think it's a Vegas issue.

MusicVid10 - Any issues on your end with Cineform? I've edited the registry, had the black specks on clipped highlgihts, and a multitude of issues from the first time to now on a variety of Vegas versions and systems.
musicvid10 wrote on 5/24/2013, 12:04 PM
IMO, the new Cineform in GoPro Studio (and is exposed in older Vegas versions, not 12), is wonderful with DSLR material.

You didn't say which version of DNxHD you were using. 2.3.4 still had a few issues, but 2.3.7 and 2.3.8 seem pretty solid. I like 2.3.8 because of all the new rendering templates.
Zelkien69 wrote on 5/24/2013, 12:08 PM
2.3.8 because of the new rendering templates :)

I simply can't get Cineform to work uniformly from computer to computer. Variety of specs, but they are all Windows 7, 64-bit, Vegas 12 latest build, and Intel processors. Might just be me.

JasonATL wrote on 5/24/2013, 3:10 PM
I'm having the same problem with DNxHD files. A project with a large number of files will hang or the preview screen will go black.

I'll have to try the workaround of separating the files into different folders.
JasonATL wrote on 5/24/2013, 3:23 PM
Could you please explain a bit more what you mean by splitting it up into smaller folders?

I can't get more than 40-50 DNxHD files to load in Vegas with it hanging.

My workaround is to use MXF 250 Mpbs. However, I can only do this without audio, which is really no solution at all. By the way, I have not found a problem using 80+ MXF files in Vegas. So, this appears to be a problem with Quicktime and/or DNxHD files.

This is a terrible bug that they need to fix immediately. It makes Vegas useless for those who use high quality files (DNxHD 10-bit, in my case).

Zelkien69 wrote on 5/24/2013, 3:43 PM
If we have a folder "KMW13Canon5DBlue1636-1712" we are simply splitting it into "KMW13Canon5DBlue1636-1670" and a second folder of "KMW13Canon5DBlue1671-1712". Both will load fine individually as we drag and drop the files onto the timeline, but we can't do the original large folder. And after it loads we've not had any issues with freezing or crashing.

I've never had issues with MXF, nor Cineform when it would work, and some of those folders were also 60+GB folders with 100+ files.

Maybe it is quicktime. I'm running on this computer. Not sure about the other. We tend to not update Quicktime and Nvidia drivers on working computers. (Working as it it "works" for what we need, not "works" as what Sony specs and falsely promises - we don't require GPU acceleration with an i7-3930k. Though we are running a GTX480 in this box)
mdindestin wrote on 5/25/2013, 9:04 AM
One other thing to consider, Cineform stopped working on Canon DSLR mov files when I converted to Windows 8.

It's a known bug according to Cineform tech support with no solution.

Zelkien69 wrote on 5/28/2013, 2:24 PM
For you computer systems and software guru, I think I found what could be the problem. Looking for confirmation or a big no on this one.

I think the hang up with large DNxHD file sets are actually the FileSurrogateIO 32 bit. I don't think it can handle the sheer amount of info we are trying to hand it since it's using 32*bit. Why hasn't Vegas changed this to a 64 bit system?
musicvid10 wrote on 5/28/2013, 2:31 PM
I would do a system backup, then install a new(er) version of Quicktime in the 7.7.x series, especially if you're on Vegas 12.
Those FileSurrogateIO problems are often specific to QT.
No guarantees, you understand, but it's worth a try.
NormanPCN wrote on 5/28/2013, 2:53 PM
FileIOSurrogate is 32-bit because is has to be. Vegas uses that to interface with some things which are only available 32-bit. Quicktime being one of them.

You can process terabytes of data/video with 32-bit. You don;t need to load everything into ram to work on it. You are only processing a small window of the data set.
Zelkien69 wrote on 5/29/2013, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the insight Norman. I simply couldn't find another reason it would hang. Plus in the Windows Task Manager has FileIOSurrogate*.32 at over 1GB of ram during the hangs. I thought it might be a bit more info than a small window.
JasonATL wrote on 5/29/2013, 12:58 PM
I still think that the culprit is FileIOSurrogate*.32. When Vegas Pro hangs when trying to load Quicktime files, FileIOSurrogate*.32 shows activity, nearly fully utilizing one processor core.
musicvid10 wrote on 5/29/2013, 1:33 PM
The horse is Quicktime libs.
The cart is FileIOSurrogate.
When the horse is lame, the cart doesn't roll.
JasonATL wrote on 5/29/2013, 2:37 PM
I get it. And, I'll try a different version of Quicktime. However, Premiere Pro and Resolve have no trouble using the same Quicktime libs.

So, Quicktime works with Premiere Pro and Resolve, but not with Vegas Pro. It just seems odd to me to blame Quicktime rather than Vegas Pro. Perhaps I'm trying to apply too much logic or there is a flaw in my logic.
musicvid10 wrote on 5/29/2013, 2:44 PM
Not a question of logic, certainly when it comes to Quicktime and Vegas!

Just the experience that the Surrogate errors are a red flag for QT issues, and rolling back or forward, depending on your Vegas version, "often" has an effect. Don't know how Premiere has been recently, but at one time its issues with Quicktime were quite a bit worse than Vegas. As a competitor in the NLE market, Apple has no vested interest in keeping its codec libraries compatible with any Windows NLE.
Zelkien69 wrote on 5/30/2013, 2:55 PM
Is there a faux or simulator for Quicktime? Might be a risky bet, but right now I've got 3 jobs (each about 500GB) that I used MPEG Streamclip to Convert to DNxHD just sitting. I'd really like to use the DNxHD for the edit.

Grrr.... Vegas.....Grr.....Quicktime.....Grr.....PC.....