Do I Need Vegas 5 or Sonar 3 for audio only

PeterVred wrote on 4/22/2004, 12:46 PM
I do ONLY AUDIO recording...I am a lo-budget hobbyist studio (grossing $5K/yr).

I have been using vegas 4 for a while. Vegas replaced my two ADATS. Now that V5 is out, it's looks like the upgrades are good. But I have to ask, is now the time to switch to SONAR as a budget minded software. I would like to have drum machine, guitar processing and looping options that I don't now have (without purchase of Acid). Not that I'm sure Sonar has those, but I think so. I have heard that Sonar is better as an audio program.

I have looked at screen shots of Sonar and it looks more complicated, but I can learn. I have also heard said that the NEW LOOK of Vegas 5 is not so pleasing and that bothers me. It reminds me of when I first saw Cool Edit and how "toyish" it looked when compared to Sound Forge. I do believe that Client impression is important.

Anyone have any opinions?


kbruff wrote on 4/22/2004, 1:18 PM
We are in a similiar situation. I have been using Vegas 4 for like 2 years no, and I love it.

However after seeing Cubase SX I think it will be a better way to proceed since you have

(01) Rewire
(02) VST / VST System link / Direct X
(03) Sequencing (In depth MIDI control, [pan, phase, volume, after touch])
(04) Multitrack recording
(05) User configurable BUS routing
(06) Surface Control
(07) VST track Freezing
(08) so much stuff -- ARGGGH

and it is no too expensive like $600.00

So I am pretty much a Sonic Foundry Head, but there is temptation to delay the upgrade to Vegas 5, and put the money towards Cubase.

Furthermore you cannot use the TC Electronic Power Core with any Sony / Sonic Foundry program.

I want to look into the TC Electronic Power Core and some of the restoration features as an alternative to WAVES products, and also for extensive mastering and VST add ons.

Its all in the future, but in the present my Sony / Sonic Foundry deployment works very well.

I have heard a lot of nice comments about Sonar and Cubase, the sad part is that a lot of new comers really dont take the time to learn about Sonic Foundry Products.

Good luck,
drbam wrote on 4/22/2004, 1:27 PM
Although Vegas certainly has some limitations, the primary factor that would force me to choose another app would be for midi capabilities. Sonar would probably be my choice as it appears more intuitive than Cubase or Nuendo. However, I'm afraid that after getting spoiled with the ease and editing power of Vegas, ANYTHING else will seem clumsy by comparison and also require a significant learning curve.

Arnar wrote on 4/22/2004, 1:45 PM
Yeah its a bummer isnt it , after trying out vegas it sVERY hard to go anywhere else even though its missing essntial function.

So, SF is lucky as its probably not going to lose many customers that have tried Vegas but its going to be hard to recruit which by the way is fine by me , it means i have an advantage as i consider Vegas by far the best DAW.
kbruff wrote on 4/22/2004, 1:45 PM
I would agree with you - the learning curve for Cubase can be exhausting.
tmrpro wrote on 4/22/2004, 1:46 PM
I think it is totally hilarious that they call it cakewalk.... It certainly is not...

But, I've been using Sonar Producer with rewire to GigaStudio for quite some time now and I love it.

It works very well.

I still do all my mixing in Vegas and I'm now starting to track in V5.
Arnar wrote on 4/22/2004, 1:48 PM
In fact we have two studios here at my facility

Studio 1 has Vegas/Uad.
Studio 2 has Nuendo/powercore.

I cannot work in studio 2 ....Nuendo is just so un-untuitive when it comes to pretty much.

i have had complints over not having Protools ...until the client see´s how fast i am.
PeterVred wrote on 4/22/2004, 5:47 PM
I appreciate the honest comments. It's true that Vegas is a breeze...i learned most everything about audio in a 3 hour tutorial with the guy who sold me my Layla Card.

I do love my sonic foundry, it's been a real buddy and has impressed everyone with the speed of mixing and editing. I'm not bitching really.
maybe i just need to look into plugs in for drum machine and Guitar Fx.
doctorfish wrote on 4/22/2004, 6:53 PM
If you're thinking about buying Sonar, why not just buy Acid? The prices are relatively similar I believe, and you don't mention the need for extensive midi capabilities, just drums and guitar processing. Acid is great for drums and rhythms, has midi, rewire and vsti, and there are plugins for guitar processing. Although i would say the best thing for guitars would be to get a decent amp and mic it. The Sans Amp unit works very well too for recording direct but keeping an amped sound. It's miles above any of the plugins I've heard.

MJhig wrote on 4/22/2004, 7:19 PM
If you are truly "audio", no softsynths (DXi or VSTi) and record the audio from drum machines etc. it's hands down Vegas from this owner of both Vegas and Sonar. I'm flabbergasted by the "Sonar is better at audio" statement. I started with Cakewalk and have had every version of Cakewalk since Win95 days, see my post ;

Sonar audio files --> Vegas?

You would be spending $600+ for nothing if the above is true.

stakeoutstudios wrote on 4/23/2004, 2:55 AM
OK... some features are missing but some you put on your list vegas does very well!

(01) Rewire (not yet, grr. hopefully 5.0b)
(02) VST / VST System link / Direct X (it does DirectX and Network Render)
(03) Sequencing (In depth MIDI control, [pan, phase, volume, after touch]) (I'm bummed about this too)
(04) Multitrack recording (What?! Vegas is probably THE best multitracker)
(05) User configurable BUS routing (Vegas does this)
(06) Surface Control (Vegas does this)
(07) VST track Freezing (Would be useful)
(08) so much stuff -- ARGGGH (have you compared editing?!)

The main benefit of Vegas is it's intuitivity. Each feature they add has a perfect interface, and working in the program is a real pleasure. Other software companies add features, but don't integrate them nearly as well.

For example, in vegas when tracking vocals, you can record multiple takes into the same event, split the event and switch takes at any point just by hitting 't' for forward a take or 'shift + t' to move back an event.

Not to mention their manipulation of events! The short of it is vegas doesn't get in the way of the recording process, like many applications do!

cosmo wrote on 4/23/2004, 8:05 AM
The biggest difference between Vegas and the contenders for me is for sure REWIRE. I think we can say Vegas generally could be used in two ways:
1) to track live music, all live, nothing generated from the app.
2) some live music, and some sequenced music.
Being a solo prject guy, who LOOOVES Vegas, I'm forced to use Cubase SX because of the lack of Rewire. Since I do all of the playing of all of the instruments I am without the luxury of real drums. The fix of course is to just use ACID or Reason or some other sequencer. But if I tried to use Vegas for my songs I would go crazy because of all of the "Render ACID, import to Vegas....oops, hi-hat off, render acid, import to Vegas" and on and on and on. The ability to edit my sequencing in real time without rendering first has CHANGED MY LIFE! I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.

A great example - this track I just did from scratch in no more than about 8 hours bewtween Mon and Tue of this week(writing included). I doubt highly that I could have done this with Vegas because of the lack of Rewire. I can live without VST but Rewire I cannot. It speeds up my workflow so tremendously. It allows me to focus on the song I'm writing without the hassles of exporting and importing and working on my sequencing separate from my song. It's like with Vegas I have to imagine so much stuff before I get to hear it. But with Rewire apps - no imagination.

PLEASE ADD REWIRE!!! I love Vegas and wish I could use it full time but alas...I'm going to have to use Cubase until you get it right.

And just a quick note - those who think Cubase/Nuendo is too hard to learn - you're just too spoiled on Vegas! Anyone who has ever used a physical console and tapedeck should be able to figure out Cubase/Nuendo. Took me all of an hour or so.
Arnar wrote on 4/23/2004, 8:12 AM
I agree and so do most Vegas users .
Its lacking rewire BADLY!
cosmo wrote on 4/23/2004, 8:50 AM
seems to me Rewire would be topping the list cause I keep reading posts about people who say this lack of Rewire in Vegas is forcing them to change apps. Forcing people to change apps when they don't want to is like the most glaringly obvious thing to add first. The other problems that have been addressed have been for the mostpart annoyances - but I haven't read anything about those things causing users to drop the program.

I think someone said "hey - ACID has hard could it be to get it into Vegas?"

Couldn't agree with you more, whoever said that.
kbruff wrote on 4/23/2004, 9:11 AM
I agree with you, working in VEGAS is a true pleasure.
But I have FLSTUDIO, which is packed with aweseom features, However it is not nearly as powerful as lets CUBASE.

So therefore the rewire feature is utilized to bring FLSTUDIO into the picture.

Furthermore I have a host of VST's from Native Instruments, using them inside of Vegas would be great, since some wrappers dont really do that much of a good job.

For me mixing and recording in VEGAS is a definite, however there is real competition for other APPS, that can combine in some form VEGAS and ACID.

dorkus wrote on 4/30/2004, 8:43 AM
I came to this site to find out more about Vegas 5. I'm an old time Acid user, and I miss it badly. I've moved to Sonar for a couple of reasons - the ability to record more than 2 tracks at a time, the ability to monitor with FX (I use amplitube on a daily basis), and its ability to do Acid-style looping. Sonar works well, but its not as fast of an experience as Acid. I like to move fast. When I got the brochure for Vegas, it looked like just what I've been looking for. However, upon further inspection, it lacks the ability to monitor with plug-ins (right?). Thus I'm still stuck with Sonar. So close.
Ben  wrote on 4/30/2004, 8:49 AM
Nope, you can monitor live input through track plugins.

cosmo wrote on 4/30/2004, 9:05 AM
Yeah - Vegas does everything the contenders do for tracking etc, esp with release of V5. The only thing different is Rewire and VST.
dorkus wrote on 4/30/2004, 4:12 PM
Really? You can monitor with plug-ins? How come they don't put that in any of the promotional literature. Now I've gotta go download the demo. Thanks for the info.
dorkus wrote on 4/30/2004, 4:13 PM
Another thing - as far as VST - you can use a wrapper right? If so, then what's the big deal? It's the same thing with Sonar.
ZAZKUASH wrote on 5/9/2004, 1:44 AM
I´m going to upgrade to Vegas 5 until is there Rewire.

Studio_de_Lara wrote on 5/9/2004, 5:02 PM
For "audio only" Vegas is hard to beat. It has excellent editng functions. You can master and burn CD's as well. It has been very stable, with a high track count for me (48 tracks no sweat).
As a composing tool, Logic or Cubase would be the better solution as each has Rewire, Virtual Instruments and Excellent Midi.
jardeano wrote on 5/9/2004, 5:51 PM
Have ya thought about using Acid 4.0,, It's an extremely intuitive music composition tool,,,, IMHO,, software is becoming very competitive these days,, Vegas ,in my opinion lacks in its music compostion qualities,, I have exstensive use with sonar and cubase ,,I enjoy them both, As of now my favorite set up is Project 5 re-wired into Acid 4.0,,, I us wavelab 4.0 for audio editing and mastering Cd's one more thing,,if ya into impressing your clients you need software that is up with the times,,, A client might ask you if you have a feature in your software that he or she has heard of..and if yo reply gee ,,,ah no,,, well ya know what i'm saying........
MrPhil wrote on 5/10/2004, 7:29 AM
Sonar is a combined Midi/audio multitrack editor/ recorder.
Advantage: You'll get MIDI sequensing
Dis-advantage: Not so good Audio editing as Vegas.
Sonar 3 only runs with XP I think. It handles VST-instruments.

So, for audio only, you don't need Sonar3, and neither Vegas5.
MrPhil wrote on 5/10/2004, 7:46 AM
I liked your track, specially the verse.

back to the issue.
I just use Vegas for Mixing, and don't really understand the use for Rewire that much, as I use a separate sequenser connected to different hardware and software applications. I here what I create instantly.