do vcd's always look like CRAP!!!

mcgeedo wrote on 5/13/2003, 9:45 PM

Nope, it's not you... VCDs do look like crap.

BillyBoy wrote on 5/13/2003, 9:59 PM

To use one of my favorite sayings... you can put a silk dress on a sow, but its still a pig.

With some effort you can make a decent looking VCD, but DVD quality? No. It isn't the length, its the maximum bitrate which is a fraction of what DV supports.

dvdfool wrote on 5/13/2003, 10:23 PM

I have always found the tmpgenc encodes much, much better VCDs than Vegas. I last tried this in Vegas 3. . .since then I've gotten a DVD burner so no longer have to worry about this.

bjtap wrote on 5/13/2003, 10:31 PM

Can you burn SVCD?
Barry

kingkool682 wrote on 5/13/2003, 10:45 PM

VCD will look somewhat better being an mpeg2 file. You'll have to adjust the default setting though, if you use variable bit rate the maximum should be a little higher. You can also try an xVCD which is a standard mpeg2 dvd quality file just burned onto a CD-R. The only problem with this is you won't be able to have a very long video. I recently made an SVCD. The quality was better than a VCD but the video had some problems during the transistions (the footage was a slideshow) and sometimes the video would flicker. I then made a VCD and though it was blocky looking I was much happier because there was no flickering or messed up transitions. I use VCDeasy www.vcdeasy.org and find it to work quite well.

auggybendoggy wrote on 5/13/2003, 10:56 PM

how do I do a SVCD?

is it in Vegas?

Auggy

TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/13/2003, 11:17 PM

To make a SVCD mpeg file, render as an mpeg-2 and select the SVCD pre-set. Then burn it to a CD. using a program like Nero with the SVCD setting.

filmy wrote on 5/13/2003, 11:43 PM

You should play around with the settings and keep in mind that VCD is supposedly equal to VHS quality so if you think VHS is crap than VCD is not going to be any better. With talking heads you can get very decent results. If you have a lot of action that your results will vary. SVCD is much better but if you project is longer than 30 minutes, or about that, you are out lof luck for going to a CD-R.

If you want to see a "professional" VCD, Sony put one inside of the Spanish version of Shakiras "Greatist Hits' - Grandes Exitos. The quality is not very good IMO for a 'professional' job, I have turned out much better results with TMPGEnc. Other countries have used VCD's for years as for movie relases, like we have used VHS for years.

I was never very happy with the results that VV 3 output so I used TMPGEnc for my encoding. Having said that I have *not* tried anything with VV 4 yet, but I did try the MPEG out in Premiere 6.5 that also uses the MC encoder engine and found the results to be better than TMPGEnc...than again I have not used the latest version of TMPGEnc yet. But if your results with VV are not to your likeing try another encoder and see if that is better for you.

Now I have said all of that your main question was "is it possible to make a short 10 minute DVD quality clip on a CD?" and the short answer is 'yes it is'. It is called mini-dvd, but not too many desk top units play the format. On computer WinDVD and PowerDVD play them fine. On some desktop units it will play as an MPG2 file but won't come up with menus as it should and on others it will not read as anything.

farss wrote on 5/13/2003, 11:58 PM

I have made over 100 VCDs for viewing in China, its all they have players for!
Most of the advice you have been given is good, use TMPEGEnc to encode, you can get the MPEG-1 version for free.

Nero does a reasonable job of buring with menus, DON'T use their encoders, their MPEG-2 one costs extra and is crap.

If you want to got to SVCD you'll need a MPEG-2 encoder, again the TMPEGEnc one seems to be the best but now you'll have to fork out a little money. Once you get into this area there is a lot you can do to improve the look of things.

There's lots of good info at VCDHelp. But one thing surprisingly, get the best quality source you can, I've made some VCDs from Betacam SP masters and it looks pretty good, start with VHS and it looks crap. The encoders waste bandwidth encoding all the noise and rubbish on VHS.

auggybendoggy wrote on 5/14/2003, 12:06 AM

where do I get this tmpegenc?

Auggy

filmy wrote on 5/14/2003, 12:56 AM

http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main2.html

[r]Evolution wrote on 5/15/2003, 2:08 AM

So is TMPGEnc a 'StandAlone' product or is it one that can be accessed from within VEGAS via a drop down menu when you go to Render?

Lamont

Jsnkc wrote on 5/15/2003, 10:25 AM

It's a stand alone product, probably the best way would be to capture in Vegas and edit if you need to then save it out as an uncompressed avi, then load it up into TMPGEnc and then render it to MPEG 1 or 2. IF you don't need to edit, then just take the captured avi file and load it directly into TMPGEnc.

mikkie wrote on 5/15/2003, 11:00 AM

If you want to view on a PC only, probably beter off with DiVX, WMV etc... If you want TV viewing, then SVCD can be pretty good quality, especially maxxing out the bitrate for only 10 min worth. Either way, from a good enough source you should get close to DVD quality.

Then again, if you're only going for 10 minutes worth, why not burn a DVD on CD if your player supports them - may take a bit of sampling re: brands of CD blanks.

auggybendoggy wrote on 5/15/2003, 5:36 PM

am I right in saying I don't believe V4 burns to a DVD but rather only encodes the raw files to a finished format. Then using another program ala DVD architect one can then burn DVD's.

Auggy

aussiemick wrote on 5/15/2003, 6:14 PM

The best way of looking at this is the following
Edit in Vegas
Then either render to avi. (no compression) which can be printed back to your camera and played from your camera into your TV or played on your computer, but avi.'s take up huge areas of your hard disk. So comes your next option-compression

MPEG-1; high compression and as a result quality suffers and can only be burnt onto a CD as VCD disk (playable in many set top players), ok if you do not mind ordinary quality, next-

MPEG-2 (SVCD Quality); not as high compression (playable in most set top players), therefore better quality but if you have interlaced source material which most DV footage is, it must be deinterlaced (this is where most quality problems occur in this format). Quality is quite good if you know how to set up your encoder for best results, despite all the arguments about which is the best, nearly all will give a good result if properly set. Next-

MPEG-2 (DVD Quality); much lower compression and the best quality available. Again quality can be enhanced if the encoder is tweaked (remember deinterlacing again). Can only be burnt in a DVD burner (except mini-DVD that can't be played on many set tops) which along with DVD media makes it the most expensive way to go.

Hope this helps explain what you can expect.

Frenchy wrote on 5/15/2003, 6:16 PM

Your last post is correct, auggybendoggy - V4 can produce an mpeg, but you will need another program (Ulead DVD MF, DVDA, etc) to burn a SVCD OR a DVD. V4 CAN burn a compliant VCD (Tools | Burn CD | Video CD) - but as several others have posted, VCD's are about = VHS quality on a good day.

Back to your first post - My experience - I get (to my eye, on my 27" TV) great quality SVCD's and XVCD's (far better than VHS) I Use V4 to capture, edit, render (see below for my settings). Then I use Ulead DVD MF to author to CD-R. My family and friends are amazed at the quality (not comparing to or expecting quality of a commercially produced DVD, mind you) Are you watching this on a big screen/projection tv? I haven't tried this.

My mpeg2 render settings in V4 (mileage may vary):
MainConcept MPEG-2

SVCD NTSC

Custom template settings

Project Tab:Best Rendering Quality

Video Tab:
480x480
CBR = 2,500,000

Advanced Audio Tab
Write sequence display extension = checked
DC coefficient = 10 bit

I use audio at 48KHz sample rate (DVD-compliant for possible future conversion, when I can afford a DVD burner)

I use version 1 of Ulead DVD MF because it allows non-compliant VCD's and SVCD's, and will not re-encode them unless the user tells it to. Version 2 insists on re-encoding - oh well - I won't buy it.

Because the audio is sampled at 48KHz instead of 44.1, I have a (technically) non-compliant SVCD or X-SVCD. My Pioneer will play these disks, as well as a friends Sony, and another Panasonic. None of my productions are over 30 minutes, so fitting it all on a CD is no problem

Good Luck

Frenchy

-edit-
I tried TMPG as well, but once VV3 (version c, I believe), came out with a much improved MC encoder, the quality of the mpeg's was much better (to me) than TMPG - and I like staying within Vegas as much as possible