Don't Upgrade yet to V9 if using Cineform


blink3times wrote on 5/12/2009, 5:41 PM
"In this case, I think blink is getting the short end of the stick."

Thanks... but don't worry about it. If you go against the ever popular grain you have to expect to take some flack.

Even if they're wrong;)

Good post though.
DGates wrote on 5/12/2009, 5:44 PM
That's *exactly* what I thought you'd look like. Sorta like one of the guys in the Village People.
blink3times wrote on 5/12/2009, 5:46 PM
Hey... for a small, short time act the Village People made more money than you ever will in a life time.
DGates wrote on 5/12/2009, 6:10 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your Village People-loving feathers.

blink3times wrote on 5/12/2009, 6:19 PM
The Village People put out the odd good piece for the time they were in. I also like Led Zeplin, the late great Luciano Pavarotti, Bach, Alice Cooper, BTO, Madonna... Grace Slick, The Doors.... you name it.

Why... Is there something wrong with that?
blink3times wrote on 5/12/2009, 8:16 PM
"Must be hard to find anyone more annoying than blink or one who has such fervent belief in his own unhelpful views; still a teenager? In mind, anyway."

Gee... I just caught this. Now why would you say something like that serena? I'm still a teenager because I don't fall in line and blankly and blindly nod my head with all the others like those little bobble-head dolls you see in the back window of some one's car? I'm still a teen ager because I'm not afraid to express my views even if they happen to be the minority. I'm still a teenager because I happen to disagree with a point of view?

My view is no more or less important than anyone else's here, including yours. My views are as helpful and unhelpful as anyone else's, including yours. My views are just that.... mine, and just like you, I'm fully entitled to state them, whether I have your permission.... or not.
rich__r wrote on 5/12/2009, 8:31 PM
I tried the purported work around to use Preview (Full) and turn off Vega's new auto mode and the work around is a little better, but not much.

I'm using a Sanyo VPC-FH1 which provides several HD recording options (1920x1080 60p, 1920x1080 60i, 1920x1080 30p, and 1280x720 30p). Sanyo records mp4 (AVC h.264 with AAC audio). So its not quite AVCHD (since the audio is not Dolby Digital, but the video is pretty close). Normally these files behave very similarly to AVCHD files.

I have tried them all with similar results. Using Neo Scene to convert and the resulting avi files generally preview MUCH worse than the original source files, except at the highest rate (1920x1080 60p) the Neo Scene AVI is only slighty worse than the original mp4 file. For the highest recording rate (1920x1080 60p) neither the mp4 or avi are acceptable in any preview mode that I tried.

In Vegas 8.0c I cannot put the 1920x1080 60p file on the timeline without crashing Vegas so I cannot compare it. But for all of the other HD options the Neo Scene AVI file is better (however in most cases my preview is close to full framerate).

Its too bad that the excellent Proxy Stream script does not work in Vegas 9.0 (hopefully we'll see a Vegas 9 update soon).

At this point I guess I will have to resort to using one of the other HD recording modes since they all preview at acceptable rates (although with transitions and effects things still get a bit iffy).

Of course I am really hoping that Cineform and Sony sort this out. At least it seems like they are talking.

dreamlx wrote on 5/12/2009, 9:15 PM
Bink told: Nobody minds complaints... as long as they're legitimate, but this whole thread blaming SCS for a compatibility problem on a new release is just plain stupid and has gotten even more stupid with your drivel.

Well I think you misunderstood one thing. This thread is neither about blaming SCS nor Cineform. This thread is for finding a solutions to a problem many people are having. And what is the result of the thread ? Cineform found a wokaround for the problem, so we can begin to use Vegas 9. Isn't that the point of a forum to help other people having problems. My problem is partially resolved, so this thread was usefull for me and also many others.
blink3times wrote on 5/12/2009, 10:47 PM
"Well I think you misunderstood one thing. This thread is neither about blaming SCS nor Cineform. "

"Sony. I've always been a strong supporter of Vegas both in my local editing community and online. But I'm very disappointed with Sony right now."

"I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. If SCS intended to eliminate the compatibility with Cineform, it should have been clearly stated in the Release Notes"

"It was Sony's job to fix it, but Sony was less than forthright in not letting us know that it wouldn't work."


"Why hasn't Sony his own intermediary codec that could be used by other applications ?"

"Sony has a MAJOR responsibility to help these developers, by giving them support, by modifying "
I have NOT misunderstood a dammed thing
This goes on and on... and the only thing I have done here is maintain the notion that this is a cineform issue and not a scs issue and for that, this utterly STUPID and out of control lynch mob turns the guns on me.

I get called a "teenager" Some one puts a nerd pic up... on and on. Well... I'm certainly not the teenager is this thread.... but I can see a lot of others.
Serena wrote on 5/13/2009, 1:11 AM
>>>This goes on and on... and the only thing I have done here is maintain the notion that this is a cineform issue<<<<

Blinketty, that is the problem. You said that, making a relevant point, and then have kept saying it, on and on and on..... So often it makes a thread tedious to read because you've buried the technical content in blather. Have you done so on your own? No, but you appear to favour the "is", "is not" style of debate and generally keep it up until others retire. Mature?

I wouldn't have responded this time except you seem genuinely unaware of how you cause offence.
Terje wrote on 5/13/2009, 1:45 AM
>> So NOW it's Sony's job to worry about other Apps???

What is that show again? Children say the darndest things, isn't that it?

Let's look at what blink is saying:

It is not the job of Microsoft to make sure that email send from Outlook is readable in any other email client than Outlook. It is not the job of Google to have readable by any other browser than Chrome. On and on it goes.

Interoperability is a central part of any piece of software. It is a clear SCS responsibility to ensure interoperability, at least if they want to stay in business. They don't have TO DO this any more than Google has to ensure compatibility with Firefox and IE. On the other hand, not tending to such detail is suicide in any business with professional users.

>> They hand out the SDK's

Having been in the software business for some time, one of the things you really try hard to do is to make sure your ABIs (look it up if you have to) do not change. Microsoft is probably the master of this (believe it or not, and they have some times sinned badly [Dos x.x is not done until Lotus won't run]). You can still run Windows 3.1 apps on Vista. Granted, being an OS they really should maintain backwards compatibility in ABIs, but so should any software vendor who depends on third party developers. If your ABIs don't change between versions, old stuff will continue to work. If they change, stuff breaks.

Sony is utterly dependent on third-party vendors to stay in business. SCS should therefore go out of their way to ensure ABI compatibility across versions of Vegas. Given the fact that V9 honestly is a rather minor upgrade (disregard the 64 bit stuff for a moment) not ensuring binary compatibility in their extension interface is a huge oversight. Given the fact that SCS can not survive in this business without third-party support, and that Cineform is a very important player, I am seriously surprised that Vegas 9 is released in its current form. In any of the companies where I have worked, this would have been a huge blemish on the chart of the Product Manager, and if it had continued to happen he'd be out looking for a new job real fast.
Terje wrote on 5/13/2009, 1:49 AM
>> Yes... mine, Microsoft's, General Motors, Walmart's....etc.

Actually, no, just yours. Microsoft spends more time testing and ensuring compatibility with third party software than they spend doing any other form of testing. Altering ABIs is a strict no-no for Microsoft. If they had repeatedly changed ABIs and changed the way software interacts with the OS, there would have been no Vista today and there would have been no Microsoft. You would have been running Vegas on OS/2 6.
Terje wrote on 5/13/2009, 2:04 AM
>> oftware companies that are destined for success
>> support third-party developers first and their success
>> follows from this, not the other way around

Absolutely agree with this one. I was working with a startup some years ago with a stellar rep for interoperability and maintaining compatibility. We were making money hand over fist. A few years into it we were required to take on a new Product Manager and a new CTO - instructions from the money people, we also got a CFO and a few others.

The CTO and the Product Manager put compatibility at the bottom of the list of priorities, and within three years the company was in the toilet and got bought by a competitor for a pittance. Throughout the ordeal we were three people making noise about compatibility and we were told to shut up. All three of us left for better jobs before things turned really ugly.

Last I heard both the CTO and the Product Manager are flipping burgers. Well, at least in my dreams. They were idiots.
John_Cline wrote on 5/13/2009, 2:56 AM
You know, Blinky, you really do post a lot of messages here. Heck, you posted 40 messages yesterday alone and said amazingly little that's actually useful. The majority of your posts have been just your opinions on a variety of subjects and are often argumentative, you're not usually passing on any actual knowledge about Vegas or video editing in general.
blink3times wrote on 5/13/2009, 2:58 AM
"No, but you appear to favour the "is", "is not" style of debate and generally keep it up until others retire. Mature?"

Others don't retire Serena, they just shift gears... into personal attacks. But I see you're a real great judge of character with regards to maturity aren't you.
blink3times wrote on 5/13/2009, 3:00 AM
"The majority of your posts have been just your opinions on a variety of subjects and are often argumentative, you're not usually passing on any actual knowledge about Vegas or video editing in general."

What have you contributed lately John, other than this rather useless and aimless post?
CClub wrote on 5/13/2009, 3:55 AM
Hey, John Cline,
I'll give you some insider information (as long as you promise not to tell anyone) letting you know that B3T was actually very useful yesterday.

Several people on this forum were very frustrated about this Cineform issue not being addressed by Sony, and we were emailing directly about it. We needed to keep this issue front and center on this forum, or Sony would disregard it.

We needed someone that would ramp up the emotion and keep this issue as the hottest topic of the day until it drew Sony's attention. We found him. And it worked. And by the end of the day, clearly by Cineform's own admission, Sony and Cineform were talking directly and it has been made a priority to get addressed.

I've learned over time to use people's negatives for your own advantage. I can see this technique being useful in the future on this forum.
blink3times wrote on 5/13/2009, 4:47 AM
"No, but you appear to favour the "is", "is not" style of debate and generally keep it up until others retire. Mature? "

Are there any further questions or misunderstandings on level of maturity here Serena?
jabloomf1230 wrote on 5/13/2009, 6:52 AM
WOW, talk about finding the silver lining. ;-)
Terje wrote on 5/13/2009, 7:12 AM
>> they just shift gears... into personal attacks

You suffer from an astonishing lack of self insight. Go buy a mirror.

I just love the fact that you can, in a single thread say:

"I hate Mac. I hate Mac users. I hate everything that Apple stands for" (paraphrasing here)
"It's only a platform, why get emotional about it?" (again, paraphrasing).

You desperately need a mirror and something that can make you remember what you did 30 seconds ago.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/13/2009, 7:15 AM

Isn't it time to drop all this and move on to something more productive? Please?

blink3times wrote on 5/13/2009, 7:30 AM
""I hate Mac. I hate Mac users. I hate everything that Apple stands for" (paraphrasing here)"

How ya doin' mr. wrongway! have you gotten anything right today? Did you pop in to actually contribute anything useful to this thread.... or just simply to spray your usual hostile bit of anger there (you do know that they do now have some really great anger management courses?)

Speaking of getting things right, I didn't know that paraphrasing had much to do with making things up! Please show me where I said "I hate mac users"
ForumAdmin wrote on 5/13/2009, 3:59 PM
We are working with CineForm on addressing the slow playback in Half and Quarter size resolutions.

In the meantime, if you have Vegas Pro 8, please close Vegas Pro 9 and then copy (not move) the file CFHD.DLL from the Vegas Pro 8 application directory (typically "C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 8.0") to the Vegas Pro 9 application directory (typically "C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 9.0").

This will restore the same CineForm capabilities and performance that Vegas Pro 8 had.

jwcarney wrote on 5/13/2009, 4:15 PM
Excellent news, cause I'm not getting to far with Metafuze. It's going to take some trial and error before I get it to transcode properly. Then I found out it doesn't support 10bit yet.