Comments

stormstereo wrote on 8/20/2004, 4:15 AM
I'm pretty sure DVDA2 can't burn dual layer. If I were you I'd build the project to hard drive, then use Nero or any software bundled with the DRU-700A that can burn duals.

I read a review of the DRU-700A. Please read it yourself since it might answer your question! http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1596432,00.asp
It looks pretty damn good.

Best/Tommy
Express wrote on 8/20/2004, 7:36 AM
Sony has stated that DVDA does not currently support DL.
But I agree, NERO can do it for you.
I don't have any DL media, but I have experimented with a 8.5GB VIDEO_TS directory created by DVDA, NERO 6 Ultra edition, and a Dual layer burner (NEC 2510).

I have both a single layer and a Dual layer DVD writer attached.

When I specify the destination drive is the DL, Nero simply asks that a DL disc be inserted - and shows the disc-full meter with no red.
When I specify the SL drive, many GB show up red.
A resonable indicator that success is likely.

Chris

flashlight wrote on 9/20/2004, 11:20 AM
Has anyone been able to actually do this???
flashlight wrote on 9/21/2004, 8:19 AM
Bump!
riredale wrote on 9/21/2004, 8:30 AM
I think there's more to this. It's not just a question of whether a burning program can burn to a dual-layer disk (which Nero can do and DVD-A currently cannot) but also it's a question of whether the AUTHORING program can create a dual-layer master. In other words, suppose DVD-A creates a VIDEO_TS folder that is about 8GB in size; can Nero automatically create a dual-layer disk? I don't think so. After all, where should the layer break be? Isn't that something that the authoring program specifies?

Not having done any dual-layer stuff yet, I don't know the answers.
flashlight wrote on 9/21/2004, 9:15 AM
Does anyone have the equipment to test this. If you set the media size in DVDA2 to 8.5 gig, you can prepare a project that size. I just don't have a Dual layer Burner to test this. I just had a project come up and I need to find a solution.

Is there any other way to deliver a project to a dupilcation house with DVDa2 that is larger than 5 gig? I don't have a DLT.
donp wrote on 9/21/2004, 7:12 PM
I do not use DVDA but Encore 1.5. The DLT drive I purchased will be here tomorrow. I don't have a burner capable of Dual Layer yet. However I'm picking up the necessary parts one at a time. Encore says it supports Dual Layer and creates the layer breaks from the DLT's so the help on the subject says. I am going to check into this some more.
farss wrote on 9/21/2004, 7:26 PM
Last word i heard from the authorative SPOT is that although Encore says it can master a DL DVD to DLT it doesn't work. If it does let us know, someone has to be the crash test dummy.
This is much tricker than it seems from what I know. The DL support in Nero is I suspect just for writing data to a DVD. In that scenario where the layer break is doesn't matter much I'd assume.
Video would be much tricker, firstly you'd need to have a fade to black or whatever to mask the switching in the player but then both layers have to contain identical amount of data so authoring would involve a fair bit of juggling for the software.
Also if you're going to invest in a DLT drive check with your duplicator. It seems the newer DLT drives write in a format that the duplicators will not accept.
I've heard some horror stories about el cheap replication facilities. Check to see that they have ISO 9000 certification and DVD Forum certification. 1 drink coaster is a worry, 1000 means you'll be handing them out as Xmas presents for a LONG time.

Bob.
Spot|DSE wrote on 9/21/2004, 8:32 PM
We burn LOTS of dual layers. I don't know that I'm an expert on anything. :-)
No matter what, there is NO WAY DVD A can author a dual layer disc.
It's not about size, it's about split points being aligned to the proper cell boundary, it's about having sectors correct, it's about DDP data, and output control information.
Encore is SUPPOSED to support all this, but it really doesn't. It requires you to create the cell boundary at a black moment. It will work after a lot of juju dancing, praying, and begging your exwife to let you see your kids during a school week. Maybe.
DVD Workshop only works for DDP, OCD, and cell boundary for dual layer as of this last week. They've had the feature, and I've been able to coax it to work since about January of this year, but now it's easy. Just don't try to compress anything in the tool, it will look like crap. So will any finepoint fonts you insert to the menus. It's also unstable as hell.
I've written a book on Encore if you wanna run over to Walmart or Amazon, "Instant Encore 1.5." One of the VASST Trainers, Wes Howell has also written a book on Encore that's a little more detailed/thicker than mine. Both talk about DDP/DLT stuff.

Yes, Nero can burn a project properly authored with all of the above info intact, but it can't output a DLT. It can only write a long file to my knowledge anyway. I WISH that we could do DLT/dual layer/cell boundaries in DVDA. Let's hope we won't have to wait til DVDA3 to do this.
farss wrote on 9/21/2004, 9:36 PM
Here's my spin on this issue.
If you really have to go to DL then presumably it's something you've already expended a large amount of time and money on. Wouldn't it make sense to take it to a pro with Scenarist and some guarantee of the results from the replicator?
I'm not knocking the roll your own mentality, just I do believe there comes a point in time when you a) Need to justify the amount of time you'll expend learning yet another box of tricks and b) focus on what you're good at.
Also, if your decide after you've edited something and had good hard look at it that it's wrong, it's not that expensive to go back and recut it, that's where rolling your own is great.
When you commit to 2,000 or more shiny disks that's a lot of dough if it goes wrong, that's when rolling your own masters may not be such a wise move.
I might be wrong here but from what I understand unlike single layer where you can burn to DVD and check it and get the glass master back to verify, this doesn't work with DL, there's two glass masters, one for each layer.

Bob.
Spot|DSE wrote on 9/21/2004, 9:47 PM
Nah...they send a D9/dual layer disc.
Our replicator tests for errors, split points, cell boundary configuration and more. They send us a D9 test disc.
They use a system called Eclipse to test for most things. http://www.eclipsedata.com

Anyway, the rest of what you say is right. However, Scenarist is a BIT** to use. So is REEL, so are the other tools like them. Encore is fairly fast to learn, so is DVD Workshop. Heck, if I can write a book on those, anyone can learn to use them.
My fave tool to use is DVD Studio Pro, but you gotta have a Mac to use it.
If your project is THAT important where you are replicating, and it's for commercial use...
Gather all your assets.
Make a navigation diagram
Take all your assets and your diagram to someone/professional house that can author this for you with you sitting there. Might cost a hundred bucks or so for the hour or however long you're gonna need depending on navigation, but it's faster than learning a new app.
that said, You CAN learn either Encore or DVD Workshop fairly fast.

BTW, our rule here is if we can't do a DVD 5 at 7000 Mbps, then we try to go to a lower bitrate. If we can't squeeze it lower than 5500Mbps and keep quality, THEN we make hard decisions as to whether to go to DVD9. It's not worth going to DVD9 if you are only going half a gig over the limit. I'd consider re-encoding. Cost and hassle aren't worth the pain.
donp wrote on 9/22/2004, 6:48 AM
OK Spot, I accept that, I just assumed that after writing to (2) DLT's for each layer Encore somehow "knew" where to build it an burn it. It doesn't go very deep into how it builds a dual layer project in it's help on the subject.

My DLT drive accepts DLT tape III only, it is a Quantum DLT 2000. I hope if I do send to replicator that these tapes are acceptable. I did not know there was an issue with the DLT types.

I will also look into your and Wes's books on Encore.

Thanks,
Don
flashlight wrote on 9/22/2004, 7:25 AM
Bob,

I like doing things myself. If I didn't, I would not be on this forum. The reason I am asking these questions is to find if there are people that have completed this task successfully and find out how they did it.

This may turn out to be one step beyond what you can make DVDA2 do, but with the history of the uses of Vegas being stretched beyond what is "in the manual," I thought it might be possible.

Thanks for all your feedback.
Al