duplicated copies cannot be read on DVD machines

chittym wrote on 5/7/2012, 3:05 PM
Help! We are using Vegas 11 and DVD architect pro in the studio. Since upgrading to 11, and Windows 7 64 bit (in order to take advantage of accelerated processing, New Blue Titler, etc.), our duplicator copies of dual layer discs will not play on DVD players. Our original masters will play on 2 out of 3 machines, but duplicated copies always fail to play. Is this a software problem or duplicator problem?


PeterDuke wrote on 5/7/2012, 6:34 PM
Dual layer discs can be problematic. Does single layer duplicate OK?
farss wrote on 5/7/2012, 7:29 PM
"Our original masters will play on 2 out of 3 machines"

That's a very significant problem already. If they will not play on 99 out of 100 you have a problem.
That said as DVD players age the first thing they'll stop playing is burned DVDs. That alone has caused me some grief with clients over the years, they just have a problem believing that the fault is their $30 DVD player until some time later it refuses to even play CDs.
Dual layer is even more of a problem as the second layer needs more power / light to read. For this reason alone I have only once produced a dual layer DVD.

ushere wrote on 5/7/2012, 8:09 PM
+ 1 bob - only produced dual layer disks on a couple of occasions, and both times they played on some players and not others. not worth the problem when duplicating for 'unknown' players....
riredale wrote on 5/7/2012, 9:04 PM
I've burned several thousand DVDs and there was only ONE machine that just would not play a disk--a very old (first generation) Sony DVD player that sold for a small fortune when new.

People on this forum and others will say the first three things to suspect when having readability issues are (1) media, (2) media, and (3) media. I've come to rely on just two brands, Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim. Even burning at top rated speed will deliver an excellent-quality disk which is guaranteed to work. If the burner is old, however, I've concluded that the laser just doesn't have the same output as when new, and I need to burn at a slightly lower speed to make a good disk.

I've done just one dual-layer project, but used only the excellent Verbatim DVD+R DL (not -) and out of 75 disks not a single complaint from customers. I authored on DVD-LabPro and burned with Copy2DVD, which I understood at the time made great double-layer burns. So I have no experience with DVD Architect.

Also at the time (this was about 4 years ago) it was important to set up the burner so that the booktype was DVD-ROM, for older player compatibility. And it was stressed at the time to not walk but run away from the DVD-R DL format as it was a disaster compared to the (+) cousin.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 5/7/2012, 11:20 PM
I believe it used to be true that -R was most compatible with players (not sure about DL though). From a year or two ago the situation seems to have changed, with current +R media being more successful, especially on newer players.

And I've never had any luck with -R/DL even burning ,Verbatim and Imation(which can be one or many actual manufacturers).

DavidMcKnight wrote on 5/7/2012, 11:42 PM
We've burned and delivered probably 10,000 disks on all versions of Vegas, Windows, etc with two different duplicators using essentially the same TY media.

Always a DVD-5. I would never, ever, deliver a burned dual layer to an end user. Too many compatibility problems.

We have sent probably 10 dual layer masters to be replicated and have never had any issues doing that but that's for larger pressings as I'm sure you know.
chittym wrote on 5/8/2012, 9:27 AM
Verbatim is our preferred media, and until now have had no problems with the dual layer projects. It's always frustrating to make a change and immediately have problems. I suspect the duplicators because the master dl DVDs I burn at my computer play just fine. It's the first generation copies that do not play. We have slowed down the speed, etc. - still no luck. I've double-checked my settings to make sure I have no copy protection labels being attached, etc. Still no luck. I fear I'll have to go back to burning two-DVD sets instead! Thank you for your timely reply.
chittym wrote on 5/8/2012, 9:40 AM
I think my main frustration comes from the fact that we've had no problems up to this point in time. DL, single layer, all have worked fine. I suspect the duplicators have to be replaced. We find that if we get a good year out of them we are pretty lucky. They will sent to the "use only to burn cds" room!

Thank you for your timely reply.
riredale wrote on 5/8/2012, 5:21 PM
I do suspect that the burning laser in common burners loses its moxie over time. Or perhaps one simply needs to open up the case periodically and clean the laser lens.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 5/8/2012, 5:42 PM
Could be a firmware issue with recent media compatibility . Is there ongoing support for the duplicators ?

Geoff_Wood wrote on 5/8/2012, 5:43 PM
They [b]do/b] wear out (get weaker) with use.

Byron K wrote on 5/9/2012, 11:02 PM
I've found that burning at slower speeds improves consistent playback.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/9/2012, 11:18 PM
How many discs have you burned on those burners & did you use the same burners for the master?

The Sony burner I've had since ~2008 has burned ~300+ discs and I don't have any issues with it. One time it was either a Windows or GPU update broke something so I couldn't burn any more, but rolling back & not doing that update solved the problem.

I'm betting the burners in the duplicator are dying, if the masters weren't made on them. I wouldn't use them for CD's, I just toss them & buy new burners.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/10/2012, 6:10 AM

Don't forget, the laser lenses get dirty, too. That will have an affect on reading and writing.

farss wrote on 5/10/2012, 7:31 AM
"I suspect the duplicators because the master dl DVDs I burn at my computer play just fine."

Maybe not.
Is your duplicator setup to do a verify after the burn?

My duplicator started to playup and I was convinced it was a dying drive.
The agent talked me out of buying a replacement, he said, reseat all the ribbon cables. That was quite a few years ago now and the thing is still going strong.

Geoff_Wood wrote on 5/10/2012, 3:49 PM
I've found that Caig ProGold or Deoxit sprayed inside the female ribbon connectors (then plugged back onto the males still wet) has resurrected drives I thought dead.

But then again, I have had really dead drives too. In my case Plextor SCSIs.

SuperG wrote on 5/10/2012, 9:09 PM
It's a pain, and it takes up extra time, but doing a verify pass is a *must*, whether you're using a duplicator or burning disks at home. No two ways about it. There's no telling when you;re going to run into a dodgy batch of disks, a flaky lens servo on the burner, or whatnot.

Discovering a bad disk later on can be detrimental to your career...
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/10/2012, 9:27 PM
I stopped doing verifies when I found out that they don't help half of the time. IE it verifies but won't play because the burner is bad so it verifies good because the burner can't tell it messes things up.

Testing a random disc out of a batch I've found is more reliable.