DV CODEC

Chienworks wrote on 8/30/2004, 6:56 PM

Since the SONY DV codec is just about the absolute best one available, why would you want to use a different one? I've tried a couple of others just for a comparison test, but i wouldn't use them for anything else.

johnmeyer wrote on 8/30/2004, 9:19 PM

The Sony codec is by far the best, both in terms of quality and speed. If you need a DV codec for projects available outside of Vegas (like VirtualDub), you can download a free DV codec from Panasonic. Also, MainConcept (the company that makes the MPEG encoder in Vegas) has a DV encoder available at their web site, but it is not free.

theokats wrote on 8/30/2004, 9:26 PM

How would you rate the CANOPUS DV codec? Any reviews?

Spot|DSE wrote on 8/30/2004, 10:11 PM

The Canopus codec is a very good codec, but is more or less hardware dependent/optimized. However, why bother? Vegas' codec is equal in quality, and native to Vegas, therefore you don't have to worry about playback speed. And, no hardware required.
They've been compared til folks have gotten green in the face over the past 2 years. What's ironic is that Canopus' codec is based on a Sony spec, and now Sony owns the 2 best codecs in the industry with their acquisition of Vegas from Sonic Foundry last year.

NickHope wrote on 8/31/2004, 1:35 AM

I have a huge archive of footage that was captured with Sclive and rendered (or not) with Premiere 6.5 using the Microsot DV codec. So it's all Microsoft DV AVI's (PAL).

Now that I'm using Vegas instead of Premiere, I've selected "Use Microsoft DV Codec" to keep things consistent. What would be the advantages/disadvantages of starting to use the Vegas codec instead? Premiere users used to talk about a difference in luminosity between black footage from the 2 codecs. I don't know if it still applies.

Also, is the Vegas codec the same as the Sony codec that would have been preinstalled on my 2-year-old Sony laptop, or is it a different one that was aquired from Sonic Foundry?

Chienworks wrote on 8/31/2004, 5:00 AM

bubblevision, the Microsoft DV codec is by far one of the worst available. There is no advantage to using it at all. I would immediately switch back to using the SONY codec included in Vegas.

If you want to see a comparison, look here: http://www.vegasusers.com/testbench/files/generations/

The Microsoft codec is worse after one single generation than the SONY codec is after 99. The Microsoft codec shows noticeable banding, artifacts, and luminosity changes immediately.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 8/31/2004, 5:21 AM

Beside the understanding, that the Sony-DV-codec in Vegas is one of the best available (and for sure the first-choise for us as Vegas user), the canopus DV codec has still the advantage, that it renders in YUV but not RGB.

Remember the sunset-colour discussion, that we had here some time ago.

Spot|DSE wrote on 8/31/2004, 7:26 AM

Depends on the delivery mechanism. YUV isn't important for MPEG delivery. All processes are always RGB. Why do 2 conversions as opposed to one?
Sony has a YUV codec installed in Vegas 5 as well. It's a 4:2:2 codec. Can't print to tape with it any more than you can print with Canopus unless you use external hardware.

The DVGate codec that came with your Sony VAIO is much different than the Vegas codec. No where near as good.

rs170a wrote on 8/31/2004, 7:38 AM

OK, dumb question here.
I'm sure it's been answered before but I can't find it with any search I've tried.
How do I know I'm rendering with the Sony codec?
When I look at the list of codecs I have on my system (both work & home), I see no codec name that remotely resembles Sony.
Even when I select "ignore third party dv codecs" I still see nothing that resembles Sony.
What am I missing here?

Mike

Spot|DSE wrote on 8/31/2004, 7:39 AM

Nothing. Vegas' codec won't show up. Unless you are SPECIFYING that you NOT use the Vegas codec, you're using it.

rs170a wrote on 8/31/2004, 7:45 AM

Nothing. Vegas' codec won't show up.

Thanks Spot. I've always been curious as to why it's like this. I would've thought that it should show up simply because it's just another codec but obviously not.

Mike

johnmeyer wrote on 8/31/2004, 10:22 AM

Just for emphasis: NEVER use the Microsoft codec. It is the worst possible choice. There is no downside to using the Sony DV codec. It is one area where Sony/Vegas is the hands-down champ. They really got it right. One test, done over a year ago, rendered the same clip 99 times and there was almost no difference between the first and 99th generation clip. By contrast, the Microsoft codec, in the same test, looked rotten after only 3-4 generations.

NickHope wrote on 8/31/2004, 1:13 PM

Thanks. I looked at the Sony/MS comparison pics and I can see the difference. I will switch over to the Vegas codec right away!

Now then... another dumb question... I've pretty much decided to continue with beloved Sclive for my capturing rather than use Vegas. If I'm CAPTURING footage from tape, is the capture program choosing a DV codec on my system? Or is this only relevant when it comes to re-rendering from Vegas? How could I make Sclive use the Vegas codec for capture? It doesn't seem to give any options.

John_Cline wrote on 8/31/2004, 1:28 PM

SClive is merely doing a bit-for-bit file transfer from the camcorder to the hard drive. There is no codec involved during the transfer. The video has already been compressed to DV format in the camera as it was being recorded to tape.

John

NickHope wrote on 9/2/2004, 4:48 AM

Anyone any idea if it's possible for Premiere Pro to use the Vegas codec so I can use that for DV AVI output if I've done an auto-levels or auto-color operation?

John_Cline wrote on 9/2/2004, 5:15 AM

No, the Sony DV codec is only available for use from within Vegas. Outside of Vegas, you're on your own. I use the MainConcept DV codec for all non-Vegas related work. It looks fine.

John

NickHope wrote on 9/2/2004, 5:30 AM

Yeah, I've just found out delving through the Adobe forums that Premiere Pro is exporting using the Main Concept codec even though it's listed as Microsoft DV AVI in the export settings.

Although I'm sure the Main Concept codec will be fine for my work, I wonder if the Sony Codec is available to buy and use from Premiere Pro. I notice that "SONY Software DV Video Cocec 2.23" is available here: http://www.free-codecs.com/download/ACE_Mega_CoDecS_Pack.htm

I wonder how it compares to Prem Pro's Main Concept codec.

Thanks for your help John.

John_Cline wrote on 9/2/2004, 5:44 AM

Hmmm, are you certain that Premiere Pro is using the MainConcept DV codec? I know that it uses the MainConcept MPEG2 encoder (as does Vegas) but if they were using the MainConcept DV codec they would be using that as a selling feature. I'm not saying you're wrong, I had just never heard this from Adobe.

Regarding the "SONY Software DV Video Cocec 2.23", I'm sure it's not the one used in Vegas. The Vegas DV codec was developed by Sonic Foundry before Sony purchased the company and, to my knowledge, the codec has never been released as a stand-alone product. It would be very nice if it was though.

John

Spot|DSE wrote on 9/2/2004, 6:29 AM

There is no relationship between the SONY Software DV Video Cocec 2.23 and the Vegas codec.
Premiere was bundling the Main Concept DV codec at one time, they no longer do. I suspect they'll go back to it, or to Canopus. For the time being, you have to buy the Main Concept DV codec for use in Vegas or Premiere.

NickHope wrote on 9/2/2004, 6:35 AM

I got that info here John: http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@149.iTprcnJT13g.692882@.3bb41c00/0
I think RGBaker works for Adobe so he should know but I've asked the question in another thread for confirmation: http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@@.3bb58f0b/1

cswain wrote on 9/2/2004, 7:23 AM

Has the DV CODEC been upgraded in Version 5? I'm still using 4 and wondering if I'm really missing out....